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Old 05-15-2005, 04:41 AM   #31
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
Honestly, I can't believe anyone actually got upset that someone said that all people have a "God-shaped hole".


because a statement like that is predicated upon the assuption that believers know something that non-believers don't.
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Old 05-15-2005, 06:56 AM   #32
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[quote]
the assuption that believers know something that non-believers don't[/qoute]

Which is essentially what is meant by 'believers' and 'non-believers'. It's defined perfectly in those terms.

By it's very definition, bold sides hold to the assumpition, that they know something the others don't.

I'm guessing those terms are offensive also.
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Old 05-15-2005, 09:38 AM   #33
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This is amazing to me. Christians can't make such an inoccuous and general statement as "there is a God-shaped hole in everyone" without getting jumped on, yet in these very same forums, it's okay for people to make very incendiary accusations againt me, such as saying that I'm disobeying God because I don't give to certain charities, or that simply by believing that homosexuality is wrong, I am attributing to the hatred that leads people to beat up gays.

In these forums, people can say all manner of accusatory and judgmental things about conservatives and Christians, but let a Christian even make such a harmless statement as "all people need God" and whoa - here come the thought police to bust our hides.
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Old 05-15-2005, 09:58 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
...let a Christian even make such a harmless statement as "all people need God" and whoa - here come the thought police to bust our hides.
i think the problem with that statement lies in the fact that it is a blanket statement that includes everyone--you're assuming that this is universally true, when it simply isn't for many people.
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Old 05-15-2005, 02:02 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by dandy


i think the problem with that statement lies in the fact that it is a blanket statement that includes everyone--you're assuming that this is universally true, when it simply isn't for many people.
If there is no God, you don't need him.

But if there is a God, everyone needs him, wouldn't you think?
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Old 05-15-2005, 02:27 PM   #36
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Originally posted by Angela Harlem
And yes, it is rather annoying when people say that we are all sinners when I see the person saying that as having no right, having no right to judge me, not knowing me at all, but based on their own personal religion. A religion which is entirely faith based, keep in mind. It might fit you very well, and obviously fits all who believe in it, but it isn't a one size fits all and cannot be applied to everyone. It is continually insulting and frustrating to have it slapped on like it should just be accepted. It is no different to me following others around constantly pointing out why they are bad, wrong, uninformed, or faulted. Besides all this, I have enough of my own guilt. I dont want or need anymore taken on willingly by either myself or someone else who deems it fit to declare me a sinner. I am frankly sick of hearing it. And am frankly sick of the pious reactions as though I have no bloody right to feel as such. I do wish any of those who do this, could feel it from my point of view. I think anyone who had compassion would cease it if they understood.
. That, and the fact that some of the things religion sees as sinful I personally don't consider sinful at all. What is and isn't sinful is a matter of opinion, so yeah, it bothers me when some people say that I've sinned by doing something or other-well, maybe I don't see it that way.

That said, everyone on both sides is still entitled to say what they want. Just be prepared to expect disagreement from other people.

Angela
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Old 05-15-2005, 03:21 PM   #37
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I've been carrying the original question that started this thread in my head for the last couple of days and have been discussing it with a friend of mine in real life. We came to the conclusion that perhaps the something shaped hole people carry is the need for unconditional love and acceptance, the need to feel safe and protected, passionate and useful. Or to be more concise, the Desire Shaped Hole.

For some, their belief in God fills that hole beautifully. For others, their belief in something else fills that hole equally as beautifully. And for others, there is no hole or no need to fill it. And for others, after many searches (including that for God), nothing has filled that hole. We all have our experiences which have shaped the definition of that hole (if it exists). But it appears if there is a hole, it is based on a primal need beyond words and concepts.
And powerful music, which is also beyond words and concepts,
calls to that need.
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Old 05-15-2005, 03:51 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonosSaint
I've been carrying the original question that started this thread in my head for the last couple of days and have been discussing it with a friend of mine in real life. We came to the conclusion that perhaps the something shaped hole people carry is the need for unconditional love and acceptance, the need to feel safe and protected, passionate and useful. Or to be more concise, the Desire Shaped Hole.

For some, their belief in God fills that hole beautifully. For others, their belief in something else fills that hole equally as beautifully. And for others, there is no hole or no need to fill it. And for others, after many searches (including that for God), nothing has filled that hole. We all have our experiences which have shaped the definition of that hole (if it exists). But it appears if there is a hole, it is based on a primal need beyond words and concepts.
And powerful music, which is also beyond words and concepts,
calls to that need.

Wow, this is pretty much a spot-on description of John Edwards' (Calvinist) theology of free will (or rather the lack thereof).
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Old 05-15-2005, 04:06 PM   #39
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Will have to read up on Calvinism then, I guess. Another thing I'm absolutely ignorant of. Sigh.
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Old 05-15-2005, 04:07 PM   #40
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by MadelynIris
Quote:
the assuption that believers know something that non-believers don't[/qoute]

Which is essentially what is meant by 'believers' and 'non-believers'. It's defined perfectly in those terms.
No, it is not described perfectly in those terms. The original quote is offensive.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MadelynIris
Quote:
By it's very definition, bold sides hold to the assumpition, that they know something the others don't.
No. I disagree. I am an atheist and I'm quite sure you already know what I know. If you don't its pretty easy to find out. No mystery. I would not be so patronising as to suggest I know something that you don't.
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Old 05-15-2005, 04:13 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
... it's okay for people to make very incendiary accusations againt me, such as saying that I'm disobeying God because I don't give to certain charities.....
Only someone who believed in God would make such a comment about disobeying God. In my opinion there is no God so there is no way to disobey him/her. Your fellow Christians are making these remarks.

Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
but let a Christian even make such a harmless statement as "all people need God" and whoa - here come the thought police to bust our hides.
Indeed they should. Its an offensive statement. Its like saying "I have found that works for me personally therefore everyone else needs the same thing". What is right for you, may not be right for anyone else let alone everyone else.
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Old 05-15-2005, 04:16 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonosSaint
perhaps the something shaped hole people carry is the need for unconditional love and acceptance, the need to feel safe and protected, passionate and useful.

This sounds fair to me, I shall ponder this for a while myself. lol.
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Old 05-15-2005, 04:27 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by dandy
i think the problem with that statement lies in the fact that it is a blanket statement that includes everyone--you're assuming that this is universally true, when it simply isn't for many people.
There is a considerable gap between "that doesn't apply to me" and "your general statement about humanity personally offends me."

We have abandoned the exchange of ideas.
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Old 05-15-2005, 04:27 PM   #44
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Having to think on a Sunday afternoon my time is so unfair.
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Old 05-15-2005, 04:28 PM   #45
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Oops, sorry, Crusader. I was answering Beli's post.
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