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Old 11-03-2004, 04:12 PM   #61
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Originally posted by Irvine511



the bible also condones slavery, says you shouldn't eat shellfish, have sex with a woman if she is menstruating ... basically, the bible says a lot of things.

Speaking of Levitical Law... a part of the OT covenant that was not renewed in the New Covenant (Testament) really insn't applicable.
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Old 11-03-2004, 04:40 PM   #62
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what the world needs now is love sweet love, it's the only thing that there's just too little of............
and it starts at home.
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Old 11-03-2004, 04:58 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally posted by starsgoblue


the New Covenant (Testament) really insn't applicable.


wake up and smell the burning flesh
of those believers would call heretics
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Old 11-03-2004, 05:03 PM   #64
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Speaking of Levitical Law... a part of the OT covenant that was not renewed in the New Covenant (Testament) really insn't applicable.


so let's call the whole thing off!
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Old 11-03-2004, 05:08 PM   #65
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Re: Re: Re: Religious Fanatics and those who oppose them running our country PLEASE POST HERE

Quote:
Originally posted by tackleberry


1. GWB initially called this war a "crusade" That P.O.ed a lot people around the world who took that statement to heart and classified this as a religious war. Even though he has clarified that it is not, he did still say this, and I think a lot people took it to heart. Also, regarding the war in Iraq: Dubya said that he listened to a "higher father" for advice on what to do about Iraq, rather than listenting to his own Father who actually won a war there. I have a real problem with this.
GWB's use of the word crusade did create a buzz. He used it once, he did not use it in a religious context, and he quickly corrected the statements. It was not used again.

As a Christian, I would expect him to pray for wisdom in all his decisions. He is open about this. This should not be unusual to Christians as it is clearly called for in the Bible. But not once did he suggest that we went to war because God told him to.

Quote:
Originally posted by tackleberry

4. In your "heart" what do you think God or Jesus would do about these issues? I went to catholic school for 12 years and in that time, I never interpreted the Bible or the teachings of Jesus Christ as ones that oppose gay people's rights and start wars based on advice from a "higher father"

The real question is what should I do as a follower of Jesus. We cannot look to God's direct example of what to do, because we do not have the mind of God, nor do we have the power of God. God is fully capable of smoting people like Saddam if He wants to. The goal is to draw closer to God when faced with things like Saddam.

Quote:
Originally posted by tackleberry

This far right attitude could possibly cause this country to say it is a democracy, but in reality rule by a theocracy. Maybe I am over stepping my bounds here, but I am just afraid of this, not saying it has already happened.
I don't doubt your concern - but look at it this way. Christian conservatives can't even agree on one church. How on earth can they impose a theocracy when they can't even unify on a Sunday?
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Old 11-03-2004, 05:10 PM   #66
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Of course not. This is resistance to a NEW LAW - that is to change the definition of marraige to include others than man/woman.

Are we not allowed to resist new laws?

the point many are missing about marriage is that it is a financial arrangement in the eyes of the law, and a symbolic union of love and commitment in the eyes of society. there are 1,049 federal tax breaks available to heterosexuals that homosexuals cannot ever have access to -- though they're getting some in massachusetts.

really, other than tradition, there's no coherent legal argument against same sex marriage.
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Old 11-03-2004, 05:13 PM   #67
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Re: Re: Re: Religious Fanatics and those who oppose them running our country PLEASE POST HERE

Quote:
Originally posted by WildHoneyAlways

2. Most voters base their decision on their own moral compass. In essence, you are saying this is wrong if they use the Bible for their own moral compass.



Actually, I am saying it is wrong for people to just use the bible for a moral compass. Southern slave owners used the bible all the time to justify owning slaves....

I guess those who let their moral compass be their guide will have their Bibles and their guns to keep them warm when they lose their jobs. [/B]
Ah, the slave issue. Yes, people can misuse the Bible. But a careful reading will show you that New Testament teaching called slavery a sin.

And, it was people who used the Bible as a moral compass who led the fight against slavery.


Quote:
Originally posted by WildHoneyAlways
We have this quaint thing in this country....it's the separation of church and state. Religion should not dictate policy in this country. I am sickened by this election.

Actually, we have a quaint thing called the First Amendment. Look for the words "separation of church and state". They are not there. What we have is a prohibition against the establishment of a state religion.

"Religion" is not dictating policy in this country. There are, however, leaders and voters who have a Bible based worldview. There is nothing wrong with that.
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Old 11-03-2004, 05:15 PM   #68
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Originally posted by deep
I have a lot of personal beliefs that you would not want imposed on you as laws.
And, by reading all of your posts, you have personal beliefs that you DO want imposed on us as laws.
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Old 11-03-2004, 05:27 PM   #69
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Re: Religious Fanatics and those who oppose them running our country PLEASE POST HERE

Quote:
Originally posted by tackleberry


(c)...A religion based country is NOT a democracy, but rather a theocracy. I fear this country's shift to the extreme right is falling into this category.

(d)...I ask you this in your deepest of hearts: would God or Jesus "ban" gays from marriage, would God or Jesus start a war, Would God or Jesus have the highest death penalty numbers of any state (Texas). Hmmmm....
I ask YOU in your deepest heart, would God/Jesus say that seperation of church and state (which, by the way, has no relation at all to what you are talking about) should keep HIM out of politics? I think not.

P.S. Please, I really didn't want to reply to this post, or any of the posts I've replied to. They're blatant attacks against Christians but I respond because the truth must be told.
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Old 11-03-2004, 05:33 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511



the point many are missing about marriage is that it is a financial arrangement in the eyes of the law, and a symbolic union of love and commitment in the eyes of society. there are 1,049 federal tax breaks available to heterosexuals that homosexuals cannot ever have access to -- though they're getting some in massachusetts.

really, other than tradition, there's no coherent legal argument against same sex marriage.
First, if you replace "tradition" by "the will of the people", your last sentence is a lot more meaningful.

Second, if you argue that gay marriage is a civil right, you pretty much have to argue that three-way marriages and incestuous marriages are civil rights as well. Hell, you might even have to argue that the entire notion of conferring benefits on married couples is discriminatory and should be abolished.

As it is, the people just happen to pick and choose which of these arrangements they wish to sanction. The way to get gay marriage legalized is not to proclaim it as an unalienable right and have it imposed by the courts; it is to convince the people that it is a good thing.
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Old 11-03-2004, 05:36 PM   #71
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Re: Re: Religious Fanatics and those who oppose them running our country PLEASE POST

Quote:
Originally posted by RTSS


I ask YOU in your deepest heart, would God/Jesus say that seperation of church and state (which, by the way, has no relation at all to what you are talking about) should keep HIM out of politics? I think not.

.
Only if you believe in his life story.
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Old 11-03-2004, 05:37 PM   #72
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Damn straight, people are welcome to the political system - God isn't.
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Old 11-03-2004, 05:55 PM   #73
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Re: Re: Re: Religious Fanatics and those who oppose them running our country PLEASE POST HERE

Quote:
Originally posted by WildHoneyAlways



As a history teacher, I will correct you b/c you are mistaken. The separation of Church and State does not only mean the government cannot tell you how to worship, and by the way, it does with the "under God" bit in the pledge. It also applies to the government not creating legislation involving any sort of relgious matter. In addition, by trying to create an ammendment that would define what marriage is, W is stepping on states rights as well as the separation of church and state.
thanks for adding to that. I really believe at the end of the day W wants the definition of marriage to be defined by the states...
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Old 11-03-2004, 06:06 PM   #74
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Religious Fanatics and those who oppose them running our country PLEA

Quote:
Originally posted by cseggleton


thanks for adding to that. I really believe at the end of the day W wants the definition of marriage to be defined by the states...
and Strom Thurmond (1948) wanted civil rights to be handled by the states...

and George Wallace (1968) wanted segregation to be determined by the states...
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Old 11-03-2004, 06:08 PM   #75
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Actually, Kerry was the proponent of letting the states handle the issue.
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