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Old 09-18-2007, 05:59 PM   #1
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religious expression or genital mutilation?

[q]Oregon Legal Battle Ignites Debate on Circumcision
By JOSH GERSTEIN
Staff Reporter of the Sun
September 18, 2007

A legal battle between divorced parents in Oregon about the circumcision of their 12-year-old son is fast becoming a flash point between critics of the procedure and those who endorse it on medical and religious grounds.

James Boldt, a recent convert to Judaism, wants his son, who is also said to be converting, circumcised. Mr. Boldt's ex-wife, Lia, has objected. Lower courts sided with Mr. Boldt, who has full custody of his son. However, the Oregon Supreme Court has agreed to hear arguments in the dispute in November.

Four Jewish organizations, the American Jewish Committee, the American Jewish Congress, the Anti-Defamation League, and the Orthodox Union, have joined together in an amicus curiae brief supporting the father's right to proceed over the mother's objections.

"It is of particular importance to amici that American Jews be free to practice circumcision because circumcision is and has been one of the most fundamental and sacred parts of the Jewish religion," the groups wrote. "Enabling the circumcision of a child, whether as part of a religious conversion or for medical reasons, cannot as a matter of law indicate any infirmity in a parent's ability to function as a parent. Moreover, any decision to single out circumcision as a basis for questioning the fitness of the custodial parent would violate the First Amendment's guarantee of freedom of religion."

Ms. Boldt is being backed by a Seattle-based group, Doctors Against Circumcision, which contends that the procedure is unnecessary and amounts to abuse.

"Parents are free to practice their religion and to have religious beliefs, but they are not free to change the physical body of their child at will," the anti-circumcision group's executive director, John Geisheker, told The New York Sun.

Mr. Boldt contends that his son wants to have the circumcision done. However, Mr. Geisheker said it is impossible to know whether the son's choice is being made freely.

In court papers, Mr. Geisheker's group has argued that male circumcision should not be permitted on constitutional grounds because many states have passed laws banning female genital mutilation. Though studies have shown less incidence of sexually transmitted disease in circumcised men, Mr. Geisheker contends that circumcision is "non-therapeutic." He said it is akin to an increasingly trendy procedure where women have the appearance of their vaginas altered.

"Would you allow your 12-year-old daughter to have her labia trimmed for cosmetic reasons?" he asked.

The Jewish groups warned that a decision blocking the circumcision would encourage litigation over all sorts of medical procedures for children. "Surely a parent has the same authority to have a child's vision corrected or a birthmark on his face removed even if those procedures are also elective and even if the other parent objects," they wrote. "The Jewish experience with circumcision has shown that it is a safe and simple procedure with few complications."[/q]
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Old 09-18-2007, 06:18 PM   #2
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in divorce cases,
often times they ask the child which parent he would prefer to live with

they should consider the child's wishes here, too.




male circumcism is not even close to female genital mutilation

it seems more like the mother is using the son to battle her ex-husband

and the kid wants it


of course I am unbiased,
I am the owner / operator on a circumcised penis

no regrets
always positive reviews
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Old 09-18-2007, 06:21 PM   #3
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The question is either the father alone or the child able to consent to genital mutilation, not the merits or disadvantage of circumcision.
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Old 09-18-2007, 06:21 PM   #4
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I have read that a lot of American males, both Jews and Gentiles, are circumcised but I really don't see the point of the procedure.

Also, what's wrong with letting the kid grow up to be an adult and then making his own decisions as to which religion he wishes to practise?
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Old 09-18-2007, 06:22 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy
I have read that a lot of American males, Jews and Gentiles, are circumcised but I really don't see the point of the procedure.
It keeps the boys from getting into the sex.
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Old 09-18-2007, 06:23 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy
Also, what's wrong with letting the kid grow up to be an adult and then making his own decisions as to which religion he wishes to practise?
That would be my choice, but it seems to be rarely done -- at least in the US.
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Old 09-18-2007, 06:37 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy
I have read that a lot of American males, both Jews and Gentiles, are circumcised but I really don't see the point of the procedure.

I am checking stats

and it seems somewhere around 70-80 percent of U S males are cut.

Myself and all members of my family are.
My father, who was born in 1915 was not.

The procedure is done during infancy.

So we have no recollection of how we were born.

When the topic has come up, women volunteer that they prefer circumcised.
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Old 09-18-2007, 06:56 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep


When the topic has come up, women volunteer that they prefer circumcised.
Or maybe it's just what most American women are familiar with. I preferred cut until I experienced uncut. But seriously, most women I think prefer whatever the man they're in love with has.

I'd like the kid to be able to decide when he's older. Poor kid--must be great having your penis in the news at 12.
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Old 09-18-2007, 07:14 PM   #9
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jesus christ, where is the tonic?
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Old 09-18-2007, 07:19 PM   #10
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I don't get it. Don't most boys get their penises circumcised?
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Old 09-18-2007, 07:23 PM   #11
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Originally posted by MrPryck2U
I don't get it. Don't most boys get their penises circumcised?
In the US, not elsewhere in the world. And even in North America there is a movement towards more and more parents not wanting it done. I know when I worked at a pediatric hospital, the nurses commented that the numbers are visibly diminishing with the younger generation parents.
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Old 09-18-2007, 07:41 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl


Or maybe it's just what most American women are familiar with.
that makes sense


I need to travel abroad, more
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Old 09-18-2007, 07:50 PM   #13
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"Parents are free to practice their religion and to have religious beliefs, but they are not free to change the physical body of their child at will," the anti-circumcision group's executive director, John Geisheker, told The New York Sun.
Amen!
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Old 09-18-2007, 07:50 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Se7en
jesus christ, where is the tonic?
He doesn't come here much. He likes my forum better.
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Old 09-18-2007, 08:18 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram


In the US, not elsewhere in the world. And even in North America there is a movement towards more and more parents not wanting it done. I know when I worked at a pediatric hospital, the nurses commented that the numbers are visibly diminishing with the younger generation parents.
Thanks for the info!

There should be a new motto:

"A circumcised penis is a good penis!"

Or:

"A circimcised penis is your friend!"
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