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Old 06-15-2003, 11:07 AM   #76
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Out of curiosity, what do you think happens to those who believe in God, but a generic God, one who exists but not necessarily through a church or an organised religion?
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Old 06-15-2003, 11:22 AM   #77
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Well, I believe that the onl;y way to the Father is through the Son, Jesus Christ. Why do I believe this? Because Christ said it himself. The whole point about Christianity that really sets it apart from other belief systems is that salvation is based on what God has done for man, not what man can do for God. In other words, one million prayers a day will not "get you to heaven". God is 100% holy and cannot abide in theh presence of sin, so it follows that his requirement for man's entrance into Heaven is nothing short of complete perfection. No sin can abide in Heaven, or it wouldn't be perfect. Man can never work his way into perfection. However, when a person becomes a Christian, the Bible tells us that all sins, past, present, and future are forgiven. Not only that, but Christians now have a new nature - the nature of Christ. The Holy Spirit lives within the Christian. The Christian now has a new life; the life of Christ. The Christian's spirit has been regenerated and is now clean. That's why it is acceptable to God, because it has had the righteousness of Christ bestowed upon it. The Christian is still able to sin with his flesh, but the Christian's spirit is absolutely perfect, and that is the part that goes to Heaven and receives a new glorified body. So, to answer your question - if a person knows the difference between right and wrong, he is held accountable for his sin. If he spends his whole life working hard at getting to Heaven, he will never make it, because man's "goodness" isn't good enough. It's not perfect. However, if that man accepts Christ, and is given a new nature and His spirit is regenerated, then his spirit is perfect and is acceptable for entrance into Heaven.
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Old 06-15-2003, 11:24 AM   #78
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
However, you are blind if you do not see that in the media, in the arts and in almost every area of American society, the Christian faith is constantly ridiculed and verbally "spat upon".
As someone who has been constantly ridiculed and verbally "spat upon" by Christianity, pardon me if I have a hard time feeling sorry for the schoolyard bully.

Maybe its about time Christianity looked at itself in the mirror and see what it has become. After all, it is kind of sad that religion, in general, has ceased to be seen as a movement for love and peace, but has changed into a movement for war, intolerance, and hatred. Yup...how ironic it is that morality is the inspiration for anti-discrimination laws, but the supposed bastion of morality, religion, is always exempt from them.

Anyhow, I'm sure that some people will interpret my comments as anti-Christian. It isn't my intention, but, rather, I pray for it to change.

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Old 06-15-2003, 11:53 AM   #79
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melon, if Christians have been hateful toward you and verbally spat upon you, then they are not following the commands fo Christ. More importantly, they are not letting Christ live through them, which is actually the whole point of Christianity. In fact, I would question the validity of these people's faiths.

However, you are getting off the subject. We are not talking about treatment of individuals. We are talking about the way religions are viewed and portrayed by society, and the fact is that Christianity is portrayed in the media as the buffoon's religion.
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Old 06-15-2003, 12:05 PM   #80
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
However, you are getting off the subject. We are not talking about treatment of individuals. We are talking about the way religions are viewed and portrayed by society, and the fact is that Christianity is portrayed in the media as the buffoon's religion.
Well, when buffoons represent you, then that's what you get. Maybe we should tell people like Sen. Rick Santorum and Jerry Falwell to think before they speak. They provide easy to quote hysterical sound bites.

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Old 06-15-2003, 12:36 PM   #81
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Well, when buffoons represent you, then that's what you get. Maybe we should tell people like Sen. Rick Santorum and Jerry Falwell to think before they speak. They provide easy to quote hysterical sound bites.

Melon
Exactly.

And ditto your other post.

Angela
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Old 06-15-2003, 01:00 PM   #82
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
However, you are blind if you do not see that in the media, in the arts and in almost every area of American society, the Christian faith is constantly ridiculed and verbally "spat upon".
Compared to many other religions, Christians living in Western countries face no persecution whatsoever. You talk about the portrayal of Christianity in the media, well last week the BBC aired a tv show which told the story of a Mosque training suicide bombers in the UK. The very next week a Mosque in Birmingham (where the tv show was set) was covered with racist graffiti and people who worship there were subject to verbal harrassment. When was the last time a Christian church was attacked because the media portrayed Christians as violent extremists?

Tell me: when was the last time you were persecuted because of your faith? Have you ever been physically attacked because of it? How many Christians do you know of who have been physically assaulted because they openly professed their religion? Are there any groups which campaign for all Christians to be thrown out of the United States? There are several who believe all Muslims should be removed from the US, presumably disregarding the fact that many Muslims in the US were actually born there.

I don't deny that there are many people who make fun of Christianity, but it isn't in any way comparable to the sort of mistreatment that many Muslims and Jews (to name only two examples) face in Western society.
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Old 06-15-2003, 02:00 PM   #83
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


Compared to many other religions, Christians living in Western countries face no persecution whatsoever. You talk about the portrayal of Christianity in the media, well last week the BBC aired a tv show which told the story of a Mosque training suicide bombers in the UK. The very next week a Mosque in Birmingham (where the tv show was set) was covered with racist graffiti and people who worship there were subject to verbal harrassment. When was the last time a Christian church was attacked because the media portrayed Christians as violent extremists?

Tell me: when was the last time you were persecuted because of your faith? Have you ever been physically attacked because of it? How many Christians do you know of who have been physically assaulted because they openly professed their religion? Are there any groups which campaign for all Christians to be thrown out of the United States? There are several who believe all Muslims should be removed from the US, presumably disregarding the fact that many Muslims in the US were actually born there.

I don't deny that there are many people who make fun of Christianity, but it isn't in any way comparable to the sort of mistreatment that many Muslims and Jews (to name only two examples) face in Western society.
Fizzing, read my previous post in which I stated that Christians are not persecuted in this country. What are you telling me these things for, when I stated that myself in an eariler post?
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Old 06-15-2003, 02:02 PM   #84
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Well, when buffoons represent you, then that's what you get.
ITA.

I'm ashamed to be part of the same religion as these people.
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Old 06-15-2003, 02:27 PM   #85
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I'm not ashamed to be a Christian. i don't care what people say tehy do in the name of Christianity. I will never be ashamed to be a Christian.
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Old 06-15-2003, 02:30 PM   #86
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I'm not ashamed to be a Christian. i don't care what people say tehy do in the name of Christianity. I will never be ashamed to be a Christian.
Good for you 80s.

But so many people have become complacent (and I'm sorry to say, but the vast majority of them are what I consider fundamentalist Christians) and they're doing diddly squat to discredit these buffoons who have taken a revolutionary idea and turned it into something ugly and hateful. I'm not embarrassed by my religion; I am embarrassed by the people who have taken it and raped it upside down and sideways and I'm embarrassed by those people who support these fools and by those who sit back and watch them without saying a word.
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Old 06-15-2003, 02:35 PM   #87
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Fizzing, read my previous post in which I stated that Christians are not persecuted in this country. What are you telling me these things for, when I stated that myself in an eariler post?
I wasn't only talking to you, 80s. However, the post of yours I was responding to seemed to indicate that you felt Christians were extremely poorly treated in the United States, and I simply don't think that's true. I'm sure there are some people who mock Christianity, but I just think if any religion is going to express concern about it's treatment in Western society, it certainly shouldn't be Christianity.
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Old 06-15-2003, 02:40 PM   #88
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Originally posted by Angela Harlem
Out of curiosity, what do you think happens to those who believe in God, but a generic God, one who exists but not necessarily through a church or an organised religion?
Please, do not flame me for this statement people. I am only thinking out loud a bit. Couldn't a strong argument be made that Christ was here to free us from organized religion? That there is a higher law than the "church" that men have made?
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Old 06-15-2003, 03:22 PM   #89
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I am not of the belief that people who haven't heard the truth necessarily go to hell (they don't necessarily go to Heaven, either).
Seems like a harsh God. Denies his own children Heaven, because of where God placed them on the planet earth.
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Old 06-15-2003, 06:41 PM   #90
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BonoVoxSupastar, did you even read the rest of my post in which I went on to explain my beliefs? It didn't have anything to do with God denying anyone Heaven because of where they live. Maybe you need to re-read it.
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