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Old 06-18-2003, 11:31 AM   #136
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Dreadsox, thanks for pointing out my error, because that gives me teh chance to clarify. I see that I didn't type it the way should have, based on what I actually meant it to say. Since I believe the Law is a representation of the Holy nature of God, I should have written

"When the law was given to man. God knew that man could not fulfill the law, but He gave it anyway, because it was a representation of His holy nature and standards. God wanted man to see that he could never live up to God's standards, and this would point out the need for the savior."
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Old 06-18-2003, 11:52 AM   #137
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox

"For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome." 1John 5:3 NKJV
I have now read this entire passage in context and can address it now, in reference to this discussion:

To understand the meaning, we can't stop at verse 3...we must go on with verse 4. This is very important. Here are verse 3 and 4.

"For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. FOR (capitalization added) whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world - our faith."

This verse does not contradict Pauline theology at all. In fact, I believe it has to be understood in Pauline terms. John is talking to Christians here, not the unsaved. Paul tells us clearly that Christians have something the world does not have: the Holy Spirit, the new nature. This means that "walking the Christian walk" is simply a matter of letting Christ live His life through us; relinquishing control to the Holy Spirit. The unsaved have the sin nature, but it has been crucified for the saved. So, John is saying "his commandments are not burdensome, because (FOR) as Christians, we are born of God, and since being born of God means having a new nature, the Holy Spirit, we have overcome the world." Since nonChristians do not have the Holy Spirit inside them, "the law" is indeed a burdensome thing. However, since Christians do have the Holy Spirit in them, keeping God's commandments is not a burden, because we have the power of Jesus, and as the Word tells us, "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me."
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Old 06-18-2003, 08:43 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


Do youhave any evidence of this? I do not doubt your sincerity in your belief. I am curious where this comes from.

It might have been a personal interpretation, and good Friday is one day of the year not every Friday ( I am not knocking this because I love seafood). I was told it was due to goiters and the people were not eating a diet enriched with iodine but there are a lot of body functions regulated by the thyroid gland. It is also known that if the church did not support an idea it was not followed (previous laws and statutes were divine before they were recognized). It could have been something else though.

What happens if we don't get enough iodine? - The most damaging consequences are on fetal and infant development. Maternal iodine deficiency causes miscarriages, other pregnancy complications, and infertility. Thyroid hormones, and therefore iodine, are essential for normal development of the brain. If the fetus or newborn is not exposed to enough thyroid hormone, it may have permanent mental retardation, even if it survives. Low birth weights and decreased child survival also result from iodine deficiency. Cretinism is a very severe degree of this brain damage; it includes permanent dense mental retardation, and varying degrees of additional developmental defects such as deafmutism, short stature, spasticity, and other neuromuscular abnormalities.
I copied this from a thyroid education site>http://www.tulane.edu/~icec/icecfaq.htm

The most visible consequence of iodine deficiency is goiter. This word means "an enlarged thyroid." The process begins as an adaptation in which the thyroid is more active in its attempts to make enough thyroid hormone for the body's needs, despite the limited supply of raw material (iodine), much as a muscle gets bigger when it has to do more work. If this adaptation is successful and the iodine deficiency is not too severe, the person may escape with only an enlarged thyroid and no other apparent damage from the iodine deficiency. Older individuals with goiters may develop nodules (lumps) in their thyroids, and sometimes these can begin making too much thyroid hormone when suddenly exposed to iodine. This result occurs because these nodules are independent of usual controls; they make thyroid hormone at their own rate, and may over-produce it when given more iodine. Also, the nodular goiters in iodine deficiency have an increased rate of one type of thyroid cancer, called "follicular cancer." Goiters can sometimes enlarge enough to produce compression of other neck structures and may need surgical removal for that reason.

In addition to these effects on the individual, iodine deficiency has adverse consequences for the community. The mental retardation can cover a wide range, from mild blunting of intellect to cretinism, and a large part of the population may have some intellectual impairment. The mean IQ of the deficient community is decreased by about 13.5 IQ points, according to one review. Individuals in these communities have lower educability and lower economic productivity, and the output of the whole community suffers. Dramatic improvement typically occurs after appropriate addition of iodine.

Where do we get iodine from? - Most of it comes from what we eat and drink. Seafood is usually a good source because the ocean contains considerable iodine. Freshwater fish reflect the iodine content of the water where they swim, which may be deficient. Other foods vary tremendously in iodine content, depending on their source and what may have been added. Plants grown in iodine-deficient soil do not have much iodine, nor do meat or other products from animals fed on iodine-deficient plants. Because the breast concentrates iodine, dairy products are usually a good source, but only if the cows get enough iodine.
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Old 06-19-2003, 06:36 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest

This verse does not contradict Pauline theology at all. In fact, I believe it has to be understood in Pauline terms. John is talking to Christians here, not the unsaved. Paul tells us clearly that Christians have something the world does not have: the Holy Spirit, the new nature. This means that "walking the Christian walk" is simply a matter of letting Christ live His life through us; relinquishing control to the Holy Spirit. The unsaved have the sin nature, but it has been crucified for the saved. So, John is saying "his commandments are not burdensome, because (FOR) as Christians, we are born of God, and since being born of God means having a new nature, the Holy Spirit, we have overcome the world." Since nonChristians do not have the Holy Spirit inside them, "the law" is indeed a burdensome thing. However, since Christians do have the Holy Spirit in them, keeping God's commandments is not a burden, because we have the power of Jesus, and as the Word tells us, "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me."
The verse most definitely DOES not embrace Paul's belief that the Commandments were a "Curse". John in my opinion is clearly agreeing with Pauline Theology surrounding FAITH in Jesus, however, he is in my opinion also endorsing the Jewish Christians point of view and Peter's point of view that God's Commandments are still in effect.

[Q]1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is begotten by God, and everyone who loves the father loves (also) the one begotten by him.
2
In this way we know that we love the children of God when we love God and obey his commandments.
3
For the love of God is this, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome,

4
for whoever is begotten by God conquers the world. And the victory that conquers the world is our faith.
5
Who (indeed) is the victor over the world but the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? "[/Q]

While you seem to be making the case that commandments here means the commandments of Christ, which I will agree with may be possible, the two sources that I have used to review this text, indicate that in this case it is indeed the commandments of the old testament. It is also interesting that John uses the word "burdensome" here. This is the same word that Matthew attributed to Jesus when talking about the commandments. Matthew, if I am not mistaken was writing for a Jewish audience, and I am willing to wager, in this context, was indeed writing about the Old Testament commandments.
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Old 06-19-2003, 09:51 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
Deut. 6:25...I agree that a man would be righteous if he could observe all the commandments. Only problem is that man can't keep all the commandments. In fact the Word tells us that if a man has broken the law in one part, he has broken the entire law.
Gen 7:1 And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.

Luk 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife [was] of the daughters of Aaron, and her name [was] Elisabeth.

Luk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Some examples of people who were determined to be righteous before the Lord.
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Old 06-22-2003, 08:36 AM   #141
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article in Time magazine regarding conversion of muslims to christianity:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...0.html?CNN=yes

interesting read.
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Old 06-22-2003, 08:39 AM   #142
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I have skimmed it, very nice article and post Ramu. I will read it in depth later. Thanks for sharing.
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