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Old 05-28-2005, 05:43 AM   #31
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You're very right. I agree. I think religion needs to be respected as much as any other topic, like politics or social issues (though I fail in respect, I know), but unlike the others, it is a personal thing for many. And who's side gets more support? Neither should, I dont think, but what do we do when we have one side of the coin offended by a certain faith's views, and then those of that faith getting offended by criticism?
I'm speaking in general here, it seems we are reaching the same point anyway
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Old 05-28-2005, 05:49 AM   #32
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I don't know Angela, you make some very good points

Maybe we should all just hug and kiss or something
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Old 05-28-2005, 05:51 AM   #33
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This description could fit multitudes of people who do not follow religion per se-- many of our great artists, some of our great leaders. Maybe our brains are just charged differently.

I remember a quote by Neil Young where he talked about some psychiatrists wanting to study him because he had epilepsy and they wanted to know what he saw during the seizures. I doubt Neil Young could be considered a religious fanatic.

Mental illness or not, I'd hate to be deprived of some of the visions created by my favorite artists. I don't want to be denied the color in an increasingly grey world (or black and white, if you prefer).
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Old 05-28-2005, 05:58 AM   #34
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Picasso was a communist who found friends in others who alongside him, hated fascism. And that brought us Guernica Not religion, but a possible mental illness to some lol.

Ah, I had a point and I lost it

and for Mrs S though
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Old 05-28-2005, 06:25 AM   #35
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We throw the mantle of mental illness around so easily.

Seems the working definition is if someone behaves or thinks differently from us, they are mentally ill.

PS, some of the Christians I've met are among the most psychologically healthy I've met. (As are some agnostics, some athiests). The choices people make don't bother me. Passion, whatever form, doesn't scare me. Vision doesn't scare me. Fanaticism, of any type, scares the hell out of me.

I define a fanatic as anyone who crosses the boundary of suggest into demand, anyone who sets the rules by which all people should live. To me, that borders on delusional.

However, this topic suggests something else. The correlation between pain and art. Doesn't seem to me there is much great "happy" art.
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Old 05-28-2005, 07:23 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
No no, sorry Mrs S I didn't mean it like that. On that note though, I am saddened that you do feel offended by others in here, no doubt I have been one to do so at various times as I am probably too outspoken in my own criticisms and state of being offended by religion. If so, I do apologise. You are one of the nicest people when talking about your faith and never do any judging or pulpit lecturing.

But on melon's original post though, I was referring to what I believed was a combination of irony, shit stirring, and perhaps mild sarcasm. Facts aside, or rather, valid opinions, which the article seems to suggest and that others have taken to discussing. Part of which I am sure was melon's intention anyway. I could be entirely wrong on the former even being part of it. I am too cynical. But yeah, as well, we do tend to stick to our replies in a regular way. I know I do as well.
I read insulting and ignorant comments on sexuality in this forum on a regular basis, whereas equally insulting and ignorant racist, anti-Semitic, or misogynist comments would be closed instantly. Then when I've requested such threads to be closed on the basis of ending such a double standard, I'm told to "lighten up." Knowing full well that I can't get my point across by writing racist or anti-Semitic threads, I thought I'd reduce religion to the same level that sexuality is reduced to here: as a "curiosity" devoid of all happiness and reduced to a misunderstood psychosis.

I've tried for years to try and get people to think "empathetically" and to cut out the crap. Needless to say, it didn't work, because I could not find any equivalent for my target audience. After all, trying to address the "majority," who is used to getting everything it wants like a spoiled, pampered child, and make it think like a "minority" was just too much of a stretch.

So, hopefully, this is one step in that direction to get people to understand. BTW, my thread here is 100% scientifically accurate. I did not make up this epileptic illness, and, yes, it is still thought in science that dopamine and serotonin levels do determine how religious or non-religious a person is.

As far as I see it, religion is 90% about "community" and maybe 10% about "theology." I've known many "devout" Christians who wouldn't go to church alone. Or how many people would freely abandon a church if the pastor became a little too out there, but all your friends there thought it was alright? We go a long ways just to "fit in," even if I believe that such depths for socialization flies against what religion should really stand for. But I guess I'm not immune either: I stopped going and no longer consider myself "Catholic," because I cannot stand the theology these days, and nor do I identify with the culture anymore.

But I digress. The next time someone wants to make a half assed comment about sexuality, think of this thread, because I'm perfectly capable of reducing anything to an unflattering banality.

Melon
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Old 05-28-2005, 07:30 AM   #37
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You're preaching to the converted, dear. I support your views more than you probably realise.
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Old 05-28-2005, 07:36 AM   #38
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Quote:
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You're preaching to the converted, dear. I support your views more than you probably realise.
I wasn't addressing you specifically. When I wrote this thread, I wasn't sure who would read it, but I was also wondering if the people I targeted this to would bother to reply.

Anyway, people should know me better, as well. I've never been completely anti-religion, but I also think we need to deal with the "Taliban" in our midst who seek to monopolize Christian theology and manipulate it into a simplistic, judgmental, and small-minded religion.

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Old 05-28-2005, 07:53 AM   #39
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Yep, I'm with you now. I misunderstood that as being to me, instead of about the points I made... Sorry, it's a tad late here and I've been reading on postpartum depression, of all things coincidentally insignificant....

For the record, I agree with everything you said in the following post as well. As I no longer enjoy the privilege modship, I can only spit my venomous agreement in probably rather inappropriate ways though.
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Old 05-28-2005, 08:02 AM   #40
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Point taken, Melon. Although I'd note that many of the responders to your post are not people who have made half-assed comments about sexual orientation or believe that one's sexuality is a " curiosity devoid of all happiness and reduced as a misunderstood psychosis." Some have, however. I think even many of the Christians on board understood the arguments you've posted earlier and support you entirely. I've been accused of painting with a broad brush (and sometimes justifiably so) on other issues. I have no patience with people who have problems with anyone else's sexuality, but don't usually answer the posts because I think their posts speak for themselves. They are preaching to the choir. But I'm not about to silence them and you're not going to convince them. From what I can see, most of the posters on sexual orientation are either indifferent or supportive. It's just that the opponents are more vocal.

It's easy enough to reduce anything to "an unflattering banality."
Any side of an issue does it all the time. I stop paying attention then and as a whole, I'd rather not stop paying attention to your posts because you have some great ones. I've stopped paying attention to a few others, including probably those people you
are probably directing your post to. But I don't discard someone who identifies themselves as a Christian or other religion, a priori.
And even if I do not follow a religion, I would not reduce anyone who does to having a chemical imbalance. I abandoned my religion and most of my beliefs a long time ago and I don't think I have any less chemical imbalance than anyone else.
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Old 05-28-2005, 08:33 AM   #41
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Edit part of post above to read:

"I don't have patience with people who have problems with anyone's adult consensual sexuality..."
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Old 05-28-2005, 09:18 AM   #42
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Quote:
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I define a fanatic as anyone who crosses the boundary of suggest into demand, anyone who sets the rules by which all people should live. To me, that borders on delusional.

Hear, hear.

I completely agree.

Religion and the followers of a particular religion don't bother me in the least. In fact, I enjoy listening to someone who can explain to me how they feel and why they believe. I despise having anything forced down my throat, though. When I feel like someone is trying to do just that, I will become defensive of my beliefs or, really, lack there of. And it will make me leary to the next person who wants to come along and maybe have a proper discussion. In the end, I suppose it all comes down to the individual, but as humans will do, everyone gets lumped into one group or another.

I do think this is an interesting idea. I've found myself thinking about it since I first read it last night.
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Old 05-28-2005, 11:44 AM   #43
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Hey Melon

I read your thread because I'm split minded on a lot of subjects. I believe science has made the world a better place, and it's told us a lot about ourselves. On the other hand (other side of my brain), I don't like to see human experience reduced to nothing more than a chemical reaction. And as a scientist could argue that religion is chemically dictated, I could see the argument that the reason that it's chemically dictated is because god arranged it that way.

'K, that's that bit.

It didn't occur to me that your thread here was an attempt to fight fire with fire. I don't know if it will work; it's hard to get ignerts and bullies to see any farther than the tip of their nose. I noticed an instance or two of the kind you mentioned, and I didn't like them. I also didn't respond. I've never seen arguing change the mind of a fanatic. After all, ignorance is bliss--it must feel awfully reassuring to have no doubts.

Changing a double standard is something else; it might be easier to change. I don't know if this is the way to change it, but hell...I don't have any better ideas....more power to you.
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Old 05-28-2005, 11:51 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by echo0001

ignorance is bliss--it must feel awfully reassuring to have no doubts.

I'm not big on

absolute truths

but you may have stumbled upon one, here.
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Old 05-28-2005, 12:12 PM   #45
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Wow, what a freak show. It's funny how some find around 80% of Americans "delusional" or "mentally ill" because they just so happen to believe in a God. Sounds to me like an excuse to dismiss any thoughtful logic that you might not agree with. Maybe anger is a mental disorder as well.
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