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Old 10-30-2006, 11:30 PM   #76
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Originally posted by Irvine511




it's clear that you are quite sincere, but this is what i was talking about earlier: i respect the thought process and rigor behind this post, as well as the sincerity, it's very genuine and compassionate; but the conclusion seems so far off from reality that i makes me question the source material that much more.
You and I have come a long way, Irvine, and I appreciate your willingness to extend not only civility, but genuine kindness to me. I also appreciate the kind words.

I wish you thought the scriptures were true. Christianity just plain makes rational sense to me. Since I believe so strongly in the perfect nature of God, it seeems perfectly logical that no man's "goodness" could ever measure up and that mankind needs a savior who is perfectly holy to stand in the gap. It also makes perfect sense to me that only one religion is true, especially in cases in whcih religions claim excusivity.
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Old 10-31-2006, 12:27 AM   #77
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Originally posted by Irvine511




yes.

i remain a "passionate agnostic," but if i were to accept the existence of God, i think it would make sense to understand religion as a cultural expression of God, that God has to deal with many different people from many different places and he reveals himself in ways that make the most sense to where people are in the grand scheme of things.
Once something is true, other things that posit the same thing are automatically false.

Logically, it makes more sense that everything is false rather than everything is true.

2 + 2 =4...not 5, 6, 567

Christianity is either true or false. If it is proven true, then all other religions are automatically false. Of course, the tricky part is in the proving...
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Old 10-31-2006, 12:30 AM   #78
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Originally posted by AEON

2 + 2 =4...not 5, 6, 567

Christianity is either true or false. If it is proven true, then all other religions are automatically false. Of course, the tricky part is in the proving...
BUT 3 + 1 also = 4

So why can't there be different means?
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Old 10-31-2006, 12:40 AM   #79
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


BUT 3 + 1 also = 4

So why can't there be different means?
If there are different roads to God, Christianity is not true.

For an explanation of why I say that, read my posts to Irvine on the subject.
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Old 10-31-2006, 12:45 AM   #80
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If there are different roads to God, Christianity is not true.

For an explanation of why I say that, read my posts to Irvine on the subject.
If someone asked me what's the way to go from San Antonio to Fort Worth, I'd tell them take I-35. If the same person asked my father he'd say take 281.

We'd both be right.
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Old 10-31-2006, 12:47 AM   #81
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


BUT 3 + 1 also = 4

So why can't there be different means?
True. My fault, I should have defined the parameters more clearly. Both 2 and 2 are the premise and 4 is the conclusion. Meaning, once we have 2, only the addition of 2 will make it 4.

As I have posted before, A cannot be non- A. The law of non contradiction.

Wikipedia reference - Law of Non Contradiction

In logic, the law of noncontradiction (also called the law of contradiction) states, in the words of Aristotle, that "one cannot say of something that it is and that it is not in the same respect and at the same time". In the symbolism of propositional logic, this is expressed as:


According to Allan Bloom, "the earliest-known explicit statement of the principle of contradiction – the premise of philosophy and the foundation of rational discourse" – is given in Plato's Politeia (The Republic) where the character Socrates states, "It's plain that the same thing won't be willing at the same time to do or suffer opposites with respect to the same part and in relation to the same thing" (436B).

According to Aristotle and Thomas Aquinas, this is a fundamental principle of thought, which can only be proved by showing the opponents of the principle to be themselves committed to it.

Thus, Aristotle considers the case of someone who denies the principle in the strong way – holding that every proposition is both true and false – and asks why such a person goes on the Megara road to get to Megara from Athens, since on such a person's view it is just as true that any other road would get him to Megara.
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Old 10-31-2006, 12:48 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


If someone asked me what's the way to go from San Antonio to Fort Worth, I'd tell them take I-35. If the same person asked my father he'd say take 281.

We'd both be right.
Yes, but neither one of those highways claimed to be the "exclusive road to Fort Worth", did they?

If someone said "Christ is not the Messiah and is not a way to God"

and Christ said "I am the Messiah and I am the only way to God"

would they both be right?
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Old 10-31-2006, 12:51 AM   #83
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


If someone asked me what's the way to go from San Antonio to Fort Worth, I'd tell them take I-35. If the same person asked my father he'd say take 281.

We'd both be right.
Sometimes my friend, there is only way into a place. Ever play World of Warcraft?

You choose an example of something that has many paths. Christianity makes a different claim. A claim made by the central figure of the religion.
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Old 10-31-2006, 01:09 AM   #84
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


If there are different roads to God, Christianity is not true.

For an explanation of why I say that, read my posts to Irvine on the subject.
Their are more than one brand of Christianity
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Old 10-31-2006, 01:09 AM   #85
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Originally posted by AEON


Sometimes my friend, there is only way into a place. Ever play World of Warcraft?

You choose an example of something that has many paths. Christianity makes a different claim. A claim made by the central figure of the religion.
Just because Christianity makes such a claim does not make that claim true.

I can claim that I am actually the Messiah. That doesn't necessarily make it true...although it could be....
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Old 10-31-2006, 01:18 AM   #86
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


Yes, but neither one of those highways claimed to be the "exclusive road to Fort Worth", did they?

Well if you were in Austin all you would know is 35. If you lived in the Hill Country you would only know 281.

Did Christ ever claim he was speaking to everyone? Did he also say how and what "through me" actually means?
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Old 10-31-2006, 01:21 AM   #87
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


Yes, but neither one of those highways claimed to be the "exclusive road to Fort Worth", did they?

If someone said "Christ is not the Messiah and is not a way to God"

and Christ said "I am the Messiah and I am the only way to God"

would they both be right?
But did he not say to his disciples "rebuke them not. For he that is not against us is for us." Already there where different strokes from different folks on the subject.

Maybe he was referring to the enlightenment that he had tapped into. Moses was "the man" during his time and he let everyone know it. He did not claim to be the Messiah; but different times produce different folks.

The required timetable of genealogy had passed before Christ was born. There was the dark period without prophecy between the Old and New Testaments. There was the first 30+years of Christ's life during a time of Jewish angst for a savior under Roman oppression. He was not accepted by the main stream, but there was more than one school of thought nonetheless. Jesus comes off to me as a bit "punk rock" for his time, which I like.

I am pretty darn interested in the first 30 years of his life. Although, it is inspiring for me as a 32 year old who has not conquered the world yet.

Christian and Buddhist concepts intersect quite a bit. I do not attempt to say here that Christianity is not the truth. But I am not satisfied with what has been explained to me yet.
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Old 10-31-2006, 01:21 AM   #88
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Sometimes my friend, there is only way into a place.
That would make it a fire hazard.


Quote:
Originally posted by AEON

Ever play World of Warcraft?
No, it's the work of the devil.

Quote:
Originally posted by AEON

You choose an example of something that has many paths. Christianity makes a different claim. A claim made by the central figure of the religion.
Really?
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Old 10-31-2006, 01:24 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

many people. many cultures. many languages. many epochs. many paths.
Many gods who demand sacrifice. Many gods who command righteousness. Many gods fueled only by anger or fatalism.

But how many gods came to save us? How many gods committed suicide to do so?
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Old 10-31-2006, 01:26 AM   #90
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Watch or Listen to the POWER OF MYTH, by Joseph Campbell. Pretty Darn Cool
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