Release of the Dead Sea Scrolls prompts The Vatican to revise the Bible - U2 Feedback

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Old 11-30-2001, 04:53 AM   #1
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Release of the Dead Sea Scrolls prompts The Vatican to revise the Bible

A few key passages.

Quote:
The completion of publication is a landmark for academics and for Christians and Jews, whose most dearly held beliefs have been challenged by the scrolls including that of the Virgin birth of Christ, which arose from the use of the word for virgin in early Greek versions of the Bible.The scrolls reveal that this was a mistranslation: the original Hebrew word used simply meant young woman.
Quote:
Experts have studied the scrolls and discovered much about the way the Bible was written, including its discrepancies, contradictions and repetitions. The first five books Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy were ascribed to the same writer, Moses, but they have many inconsistencies. The scrolls include several different editions of the books of Exodus and Numbers, and the Psalms. They revealed that the Bible was not a rigidly fixed text, but was edited and adjusted to make the text more relevant to its audience.
You have got to wonder what they edited out from the Bible?

Maybe someday we will get an unabridged version....or maybe not.

[This message has been edited by DoctorGonzo (edited 11-30-2001).]
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Old 11-30-2001, 05:42 AM   #2
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Could you post a link to this, please?
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Old 11-30-2001, 06:51 AM   #3
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I guess that's what I get for posting so early in the morning

Here it is

Thought it was in the origional post.
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Old 11-30-2001, 07:16 AM   #4
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Thanks! That's huge, if it's true. Can anyone confirm that the Vatican is actually planning on revising sections of the Bible based on this?
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Old 11-30-2001, 09:14 AM   #5
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Personally, I severely doubt that the Vatican will revise St. Mary's virginity, because it is one of only four "ex cathedra" statements within the Church, which means that it was declared infallible. Luckily, the Church has not abused this article of tradition, and has only used it in regards to dogma.

As for the idea that the Bible was not a rigid text, but often edited for relevancy to the target audience, I believe it, because I've been saying that for a while, in one form or another. I'm glad that the Dead Sea Scrolls corroborate with my theories. You can see this even within the four existing gospels, which were written to different target audiences, and Jesus does contradict Himself in a few places.

Regardless, I do expect the Catholic Church to make revisions, perhaps some that are drastic, because it is in keeping with a 1930s era papal encyclical that called for the critical analysis and the attempt to discover the true intent of the Bible using the original texts. I will be curious to see what will be changed, but, knowing the Church for what it is, I doubt the changes that are made will rock the boat. I guess, instead of God commanding the killing 40,000 Israelites, he will only have killed 30,000 or something.

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time

[This message has been edited by melon (edited 11-30-2001).]
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Old 11-30-2001, 09:41 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon:
I guess, instead of God commanding the killing 40,000 Israelites, he will only have killed 30,000 or something.
Hahaha - see? The OT God wasn't so bad after all.

Well, that's a big nice "told you so" for you, Melon. I remember you talking about how the NT wasn't supposed to be the final word, so I guess now we should wait for the Brand New And Improved Testament.

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Old 11-30-2001, 10:14 AM   #7
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After going to the link I thought this paragraph was pretty interesting as well.

"It was not only the religious significance of the work that the scrolls questioned but also their historical truth, for they revealed that the writers would have coloured their accounts with their prejudices too."

So since it was written by men, does that mean there could have been female apostles who were given male names? or female rabbis and female priests in the early church established by Paul in Rome? And if that's possible what else is out there that they forgot about?
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Old 11-30-2001, 10:26 AM   #8
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Isn't the NIV (New International Version) translation based on the Dead Sea Scrolls? (I may be wrong about that, but it's what I have heard.)

sharky, in some of my studies last year I read works by scholars that have found reason to believe that, yes, there have been instances of female apostles having their names changed in later translations. The one that comes to mind is of Junia being "renamed" Junius. I'll have to find the source material...but I must say it was intriguing.
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Old 11-30-2001, 10:46 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by sulawesigirl4:
Isn't the NIV (New International Version) translation based on the Dead Sea Scrolls? (I may be wrong about that, but it's what I have heard.)
To be blunt, the NIV is one of the worst translated Bibles ever. It simply took traditional interpretations of questionable words and amplified it. It would be equivalent to taking Jacob's Ladder, translating it as Jacob's Stairs, and then translating it again as Jacob's Escalator. That is the NIV, and you would do better to find other translations.

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
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Old 11-30-2001, 10:49 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon:
To be blunt, the NIV is one of the worst translated Bibles ever. It simply took traditional interpretations of questionable words and amplified it. It would be equivalent to taking Jacob's Ladder, translating it as Jacob's Stairs, and then translating it again as Jacob's Escalator. That is the NIV, and you would do better to find other translations.

Melon

Actually, I wasn't asking how "good" of a translation it was...just curious about the source material. I'm aware that there are better translations, but my understanding was that they had used the material in the Dead Sea Scrolls rather than revising the existing KJV.

Out of curiousity, which translations would you consider to be accurate and still relevant in terms of today's language?

-sula
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Old 12-01-2001, 10:23 PM   #11
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Um, I don't see how the possible mistranslation of "young woman" as "virgin" contradicts the doctrine of the virgin birth of Jesus.

In Matthew, an angel tells Joseph that Mary's child is conceived of the Holy Spirit, and in Luke another angel tells Mary the same thing. So I don't see how a mistranslation would refute the virgin birth of Christ--to do so, one would have to refute the texts of Matthew and Luke directly.
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Old 12-01-2001, 11:56 PM   #12
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Melon, where in the Bible does Jesus contradict himself?
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Old 12-02-2001, 12:25 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by bonoiswubbus:
Melon, where in the Bible does Jesus contradict himself?
I'll do it in the most simplest manner, and ask you (or anyone else who wishes to answer):

1) What did Jesus say before he died on the cross?

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
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Old 12-02-2001, 12:32 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon:
I'll do it in the most simplest manner, and ask you (or anyone else who wishes to answer):

1) What did Jesus say before he died on the cross?

Melon

Father, forgive them for they know not what they do. It is finished.



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Old 12-02-2001, 12:43 AM   #15
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Let me get this right... A bunch of scholars have been poring over these scrolls for half a century, and we are JUST NOW hearing that the word "virgin" may best be translated "young girl", and that's supposed to shake the validity of the scriptures?
Has it ever occurred to anyone that some scholars may have an agenda or bias? Is it possible that not all researchers are completely objective? From my experience, people who refuse to believe will find things to "corroborate (their) theories", and those who will believe blindly will not be dissuaded from their beliefs as well. But that's why it's called "faith": there's always the possibility of being wrong.
Regardless of the possibilities of this alleged error, they don't change these facts:
1) The scrolls show that the scriptures have been accurately preserved, traceable to within the lifetime of contemporaries of Jesus.
2) According to these scrolls, some 500 people claim to have seen Jesus alive after his crucifixion. Many of these gave their lives because they would not retract this claim. Maybe they were emotionally unstable people who were easy targets for a personality cult; maybe not.
3) According to these scrolls, Jesus blatantly claimed to be God publicly before his crucifixion.
Even if this theory is plausible and someone wants to challenge the virgin birth (who WOULD blindly accept this?), the historically-documented life and claims of Jesus must be considered. After all, no one ever accused Mary of dying to reconcile humans to God.
And yes, even in the "erroneous" versions of the Bible, the new testament is littered with examples of women who were waist-deep in the ministry of Jesus, and who were prophets and leaders in the early church. Jesus did NOT seek to "keep the woman down."
Comments welcome. I'm no Greek scholar, and it's very possible that I'm ignorant as all get-out.
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