Anthony
Refugee
AchtungBubba;
'"Why hast thou forsaken me?" is NOT NECESSARILY a contradiction on Christ's part.'
Maybe not, but I certainly see it as such.
'It is not puerile to believe that Christ was and is infallible (and I say "is" because we Christians also believe that, having conquered death, He is alive this very moment). If one believes that Christ is God Incarnate, than it follows that Christ can very well be a perfect man. And the question of Christ being God is the question of faith on which all of Christianity hangs.'
Yes, as you say, if one believes that Christ is God incarnate, then he is the perfect man, however, I don't believe that Christ IS God incarnate, or atleast, not the way Christian Theology would have it. My belief is that we are all children of God, and hence, we are all capable to be perfect in some way. The right to perfection is not just handed down to The Chosen Ones, and so, since Jesus Christ was human, in my system of belief he was imperfect in some way; whether he achieved nirvana or enlightenment, that information is lost to the pages of history, though it really does seem like it. That is how I fit in the 'wise man' theory, the man seems to have been a genius of some sort, and genius is a form of madness, which fits in with your 'insane' recommendation. Again, I don't believe he was God Incarnate (no more than you or I)and hence the man, as he was prone to strong emotions such as anger and violence had too have some imperfections. No point in me asking you 'what makes him so special?' Because you'll answer back with him being God Incarnate, this is not a valid argument for me because I don't believe in it.
'I believe that the Bible contains truth without any error.'
Oh really? Well, that is yet again another discrepancy between us as Human Beings. I happen to believe that the Bible is one of the most misguided and prejeduiced pieces of literature ever written, not to mention the stale, one-sided and completely third-rate manner in which it is written. The Bible provides interesting articles into Jewish superstition and some accounts of a very wise man who changed the world; nothing more.
I'm sorry, but I've never needed it. Was Jesus under some dizzy spell when he said that the kingdom of God is WITHIN? You will not find it in a page, and you won't find it in a Church, its in the human spirit where it is found, anything else is just miguided and irrelevant. 'The Kingdom of God is Within', this I believe as much.
As for your argument about people being divinely inspired by God, I could tell you that God inspires me everytime I pick up a paintbrush, everytime I write a sentence, everytime I do anything. God inspires everyone, and God works through everyone, where does one draw the line?
As for your comment on the contradictions within the Bible, let me say that that is the one quality I admire within the Bible, it has always been my belief that anything that does not have contradictions isn't worth believing; without darkness there can be no light.
'Fortunately, we are not asked to understand - only to come "as children" and simply believe.'
I am sorry, but believing in something without question is an exceedingly dangerous thing to do. Dangerous for you and dangerous for humanity. I for one will never enter through a doorway without questioning where it takes me to, I can not simply 'believe' without question. It is in my nature to question. It is always better to ask the right questions than to have the wrong answers.
'He is either God, Satan, or insane. A "wise teacher" is simply not an option.'
Well, I have to respond to this according to my system of belief. Who's system of belief am I supposed to use? Yours? I've spent a lot of my life trying to get rid of any form of Christianity (or any other organised religion) and I can respect what you say, but I must disagree. I don't believe in Satan, I believe that God is absolute, that IT is everything Good and Bad. AS for the Insantity bit, it could have been a possibility, he must've been an eccentric. As for the God part, I believe we are all children of God, not just Jesus, putting Jesus on equal footing with the rest of us. The only difference is, Jesus was a lot more wiser and smarter than anybody else around him, hence making him in my system of belief nothing more than a wise man.
Ant.
'"Why hast thou forsaken me?" is NOT NECESSARILY a contradiction on Christ's part.'
Maybe not, but I certainly see it as such.
'It is not puerile to believe that Christ was and is infallible (and I say "is" because we Christians also believe that, having conquered death, He is alive this very moment). If one believes that Christ is God Incarnate, than it follows that Christ can very well be a perfect man. And the question of Christ being God is the question of faith on which all of Christianity hangs.'
Yes, as you say, if one believes that Christ is God incarnate, then he is the perfect man, however, I don't believe that Christ IS God incarnate, or atleast, not the way Christian Theology would have it. My belief is that we are all children of God, and hence, we are all capable to be perfect in some way. The right to perfection is not just handed down to The Chosen Ones, and so, since Jesus Christ was human, in my system of belief he was imperfect in some way; whether he achieved nirvana or enlightenment, that information is lost to the pages of history, though it really does seem like it. That is how I fit in the 'wise man' theory, the man seems to have been a genius of some sort, and genius is a form of madness, which fits in with your 'insane' recommendation. Again, I don't believe he was God Incarnate (no more than you or I)and hence the man, as he was prone to strong emotions such as anger and violence had too have some imperfections. No point in me asking you 'what makes him so special?' Because you'll answer back with him being God Incarnate, this is not a valid argument for me because I don't believe in it.
'I believe that the Bible contains truth without any error.'
Oh really? Well, that is yet again another discrepancy between us as Human Beings. I happen to believe that the Bible is one of the most misguided and prejeduiced pieces of literature ever written, not to mention the stale, one-sided and completely third-rate manner in which it is written. The Bible provides interesting articles into Jewish superstition and some accounts of a very wise man who changed the world; nothing more.
I'm sorry, but I've never needed it. Was Jesus under some dizzy spell when he said that the kingdom of God is WITHIN? You will not find it in a page, and you won't find it in a Church, its in the human spirit where it is found, anything else is just miguided and irrelevant. 'The Kingdom of God is Within', this I believe as much.
As for your argument about people being divinely inspired by God, I could tell you that God inspires me everytime I pick up a paintbrush, everytime I write a sentence, everytime I do anything. God inspires everyone, and God works through everyone, where does one draw the line?
As for your comment on the contradictions within the Bible, let me say that that is the one quality I admire within the Bible, it has always been my belief that anything that does not have contradictions isn't worth believing; without darkness there can be no light.
'Fortunately, we are not asked to understand - only to come "as children" and simply believe.'
I am sorry, but believing in something without question is an exceedingly dangerous thing to do. Dangerous for you and dangerous for humanity. I for one will never enter through a doorway without questioning where it takes me to, I can not simply 'believe' without question. It is in my nature to question. It is always better to ask the right questions than to have the wrong answers.
'He is either God, Satan, or insane. A "wise teacher" is simply not an option.'
Well, I have to respond to this according to my system of belief. Who's system of belief am I supposed to use? Yours? I've spent a lot of my life trying to get rid of any form of Christianity (or any other organised religion) and I can respect what you say, but I must disagree. I don't believe in Satan, I believe that God is absolute, that IT is everything Good and Bad. AS for the Insantity bit, it could have been a possibility, he must've been an eccentric. As for the God part, I believe we are all children of God, not just Jesus, putting Jesus on equal footing with the rest of us. The only difference is, Jesus was a lot more wiser and smarter than anybody else around him, hence making him in my system of belief nothing more than a wise man.
Ant.