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Old 01-11-2005, 03:48 PM   #106
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Chopping off fingers- torture
inserting bamboo shoots under fingernails-torture
human pyramids- humiliation
50 lashes- torture
starvation-torture
dog leash on naked man- humiliation
beheading- brutal execution

Soldier in uniform- Geneva Convention
setting of roadside bomb killing your owm women and children then hiding among civilians- terrorist, not Geneva convention.

I'm sure OBL and Saddam will treat our POWs just fine if we're nice to theirs.

Publishing Abu Ghraib photos for the world to see months after the fact when an internal Pentagon investigation is already underway in order to bring a President down and harm the war effort? Thanks Mary Mapes, hope you made a buck or two from CBS. Didn't help your ratings though, did it?

I'm all for the press holding the government accountable. They have investigative reporting for that. (Although they didn't do too well investigating the forged documents, did they?). But they had to know full well the consequences to our nation that the release of those photos would cause.
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Old 01-11-2005, 04:03 PM   #107
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Old 01-11-2005, 05:26 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally posted by drhark

I'm all for the press holding the government accountable. They have investigative reporting for that.

But they had to know full well the consequences to our nation that the release of those photos would cause.

Quote:
Iraqi Victim Says U.S. Torture Worse That Saddam


Jan 11, 6:11 PM (ET)

U.S. Army SPC Charles Graner arrives for day two of his court martial at Fort Hood, Texas January...
Full Image



By Adam Tanner

FORT HOOD, Texas (Reuters) - A former inmate at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison forced by U.S. guards to masturbate in public and piled onto a pyramid of naked men said on Tuesday even Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein did not do such things.

The inmate testified at the court martial of reservist soldier Charles Graner, accused ringleader of guards who engaged in the abuse, which prompted outrage when pictures of the sexual humiliation were published around the world.

"I couldn't believe in the beginning that this could happen, but I wished I could kill myself because no one was there to stop it," Hussein Mutar, who was sent to Abu Ghraib accused of car theft, said in videotaped testimony.

"They were torturing us as though it was theater for them," he said, as the prosecution wound up its case against Graner on assault, dereliction of duty and other charges that could bring him up to 17 1/2 years in prison.

An obviously ill-at ease Mutar added: "I was extremely emotional because (even) Saddam didn't do this to us."

Graner and Pvt. Lynndie England, with whom he fathered a child and who is also facing a court-martial, became the faces of the Abu Ghraib prison scandal after they appeared smiling in photographs that showed degraded, naked prisoners.

Since the scandal erupted last year, the Bush administration has blamed it on a small group of soldiers.

But investigations have shown many prisoners in Iraq, Afghanistan and at the U.S. Navy base at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba also suffered abusive treatment after the government looked at ways to obtain more information in its war against terrorism.
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Old 01-11-2005, 05:35 PM   #109
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I know showing your dick is infinitely worse than having the damn thing sawn off. I do of course wonder what experiences this individual had under Saddam that would allow him to make such a statement. There are plenty of Iraqi's and Arabs in general who see how preposterous this is when compared to what their own governments do.

Lets have the trials, lets put all the evidence on the table now.
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Old 01-11-2005, 05:40 PM   #110
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A Saddam supporter said we were worse
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Old 01-11-2005, 05:46 PM   #111
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Lets have the trials, lets put all the evidence on the table now.


that is where this information is coming from


here is a link


and another
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Old 01-11-2005, 05:51 PM   #112
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I love how Americans hold themselves to higher standards and would never compare themselves to Iraq until it comes to torture and then it's apples and apples.
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Old 01-11-2005, 06:19 PM   #113
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at least CBS admits when it makes mistakes, roots out those accountable, and fires them.

unlike a certain administration who can't think of anything it's done wrong ...
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Old 01-11-2005, 06:23 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally posted by drhark
Chopping off fingers- torture
inserting bamboo shoots under fingernails-torture
human pyramids- humiliation
50 lashes- torture
starvation-torture
dog leash on naked man- humiliation
beheading- brutal execution

Soldier in uniform- Geneva Convention
setting of roadside bomb killing your owm women and children then hiding among civilians- terrorist, not Geneva convention.


while i agree with your distinction based upon the soldier-in-uniform, we are finding out that a whole lot is going on in iraqi prisons beyond sexual humiliations.

i posted this in the War forum, but it applies here, i think (forgive me, moderators, if this is a transgression):

there is spiraling evidence we now have of the extent (and systemic nature) to which American troops toture in prisons in Iraq, i think that one of the remarkable features of this whole disgusting phenomenon is just how anti-Muslim these techniques are: sexual humiliation, rape, the force-feeding of pork, forcible pouring of liquor down an inmate's throat, wrapping someone in the Israeli flag, forcing inmates to kneel and pray and then kicking them in the head, and now placing duct tape over the mouth of someone reciting the Koran.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...6-2005Jan5.html


I also came across this first-hand sworn Red Cross deposition of an interrogation in Abu Ghraib:


They took me inside the building and started to scream at me. They stripped me naked, they asked me, "Do you pray to Allah?" I said, "Yes." They said, "Fuck you" and "Fuck him." ... Someone else asked me, "Do you believe in anything?" I said to him, "I believe in Allah." So he said, "But I believe in torture and I will torture you. When I go home to my country, I will ask whoever comes after me to torture you." Then they handcuffed me and hung me to the bed. They ordered me to curse Islam and because they started to hit my broken leg, I cursed my religion. They ordered me to thank Jesus I am alive. And I did what they ordered me. This is against my belief. They left me hang from the bed and after a while I lost consciousness."



of course most US soldiers are brave men and women who would never dream of such a thing, but we're kidding ourselves if we think Abu Ghraib was an abberation. in the process of conducting this war, are we becoming that which we hope to destroy?


and, yes, we do send people to Egypt to get tortured.
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Old 01-11-2005, 06:46 PM   #115
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wink

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
at least CBS admits when it makes mistakes, roots out those accountable, and fires them.

only when exposed.
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Old 01-11-2005, 06:50 PM   #116
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Interestingly CBS doesn't seem to think that accountability goes all the way to the top when they are at fault; Do as I say and not as I do.
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Old 01-11-2005, 07:49 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


only when exposed.

and which shortcoming of Rumsfeld's failed war *hasn't* been exposed?

at least CBS doesn't get people killed.
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Old 01-11-2005, 08:56 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511



and which shortcoming of Rumsfeld's failed war *hasn't* been exposed?

at least CBS doesn't get people killed.
they only tried to sway an election

but got caught

db9
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Old 01-11-2005, 09:54 PM   #119
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Not to mention their ever so biased Ronald Reagan film, their maritial status with Barbara Streisand, and now the fake Bush documents.

Amazing how Andy Rooney isn't considered half as obnoxious as Bill O'Reilly. Let's have a look at his records: Excerpts from http://www.suddenlysenior.com/andyro...timoresun.html

In 1990, he was suspended by CBS News for 32 days for inflammatory comments he made about gays to a gay newspaper that, in turn, ended up on a CBS news special.

In 1997, he angered that group once more by declaring that "so-called Indian casinos are a joke," and denouncing their owners as "sleazeballs."

In 1999, without naming names, he complained that "the most beautiful woman in television news" had had cosmetic surgery and now looked "as if she had been in a minor automobile accident."

And last year, he complained during a television sports show that women sideline reporters have "no business being down there (on the field) trying to make some comment about a football game."

So it was no surprise when he threw a few well-worn brickbats at the French for failing to support the war in Iraq earlier this year.

"You can't beat the French when it comes to food, fashion, wine or perfume, but they lost their license to have an opinion on world affairs years ago," he said on 60 Minutes.

"The French lost World War II to the Germans in about 20 minutes."

--------------------

Oh, but that's not all!

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1286909/posts

"I am an atheist," Rooney told Tufts. "I don't understand religion at all. I'm sure I'll offend a lot of people by saying this, but I think it's all nonsense."

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/au...dy_rooney.html

"Men wake up aroused in the morning. We can't help it. We just wake up and we want you. And the women are thinking, "How can he want me the way I look in the morning?" It's because we can't see you. We have no blood anywhere near our optic nerve."

http://www.emigrant.ie/boards/cgi-bi...c;f=2;t=003031

"For all those men who say, 'Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free'. Here's an update for you. Nowadays 80% of women are against marriage, why? Because women realize it's not worth buying an entire pig, just to get a little sausage."


Sad thing is, he's not the only one. CBS is the most evil network on TV.
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Old 01-11-2005, 10:01 PM   #120
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Nowadays 80% of women are against marriage, why? Because women realize it's not worth buying an entire pig, just to get a little sausage."
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