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Old 01-30-2002, 01:49 PM   #16
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didn't watch it and won't. i quit watching any network news shortly after 9/11. i have to say, that 9/11 and the subsequent "war on terrorism" has been one huge propaganda machine. any one who voiced a hint of opposition or dared to question dub and his cohorts were made to applogize to to people. which is about the most un-american notion i can dream of. i agree that these tragedies are the best thing that could happen to bush. all of the nation's attention is diverted from who his bedfellows are and his blantant attempt to buy approval with tax dollars. and they called clinton the teflon president?
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Old 01-30-2002, 02:27 PM   #17
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Did anyone see Tim Russert on MSN after the speech? Someone told me that he said George Bush told him that U2 is his favorite music after country. Just wondering if this was true.
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Old 01-30-2002, 07:21 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lemonite:
[B] Oh Goodie.. I'm glad you're fed up too with the tiring liberal bias in the popular press.. That's great to hear! I applaud you.

L. Unplugged

[B]
Actually, since 9/11, the media has taken a decidedly conservative turn. It seems that on every news show, there is talk of rooting out the "evil", and criticizing those who would dare to question the actions of the US in this situation. Rather than using reason and logic, they have managed to use people's emotions to convince people that we must search far and wide for the terror and destroy any who have anti-US sentiment. That type of propaganda borders on that of a military-centered state. Funny how we also hear arguments for an increase in defense funding to "protect our way of life".

I'm incredibly worried about his anti-Iran and anti-North Korea statements. No, those two nations have not always agreed with us. But both of them, especially Iran, have made recent strides towards diplomacy with us. Iranian president Khatami has said in the past that he envisions a future where Iran and the US are allies. Well, thanks to the "axis of evil", that won't be happening any time soon.

Mr. President, please make sure you don't cause more damage than you prevent.



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Old 01-30-2002, 09:24 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Foxxern:
Actually, since 9/11, the media has taken a decidedly conservative turn. It seems that on every news show, there is talk of rooting out the "evil", and criticizing those who would dare to question the actions of the US in this situation. Rather than using reason and logic, they have managed to use people's emotions to convince people that we must search far and wide for the terror and destroy any who have anti-US sentiment. That type of propaganda borders on that of a military-centered state. Funny how we also hear arguments for an increase in defense funding to "protect our way of life".
I see you use quote-marks when you refer to "evil". So, does that mean that evil doesn't exist, or that merely regimes like Iraq don't qualify?

Also, there's a big difference between "anti-US sentiment" and an concerted effort to murder Americans. That point should be obvious; it sickens me that it isn't.

Finally, given the precision and deliberateness of the US government and military so far, I don't see any absence of reason or logic.
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Old 01-30-2002, 10:11 PM   #20
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also his mouth is very strange, and you can't help keep watching it, and wondering does he serve towels with that shower.
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Old 01-31-2002, 12:00 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Achtung Bubba:
I see you use quote-marks when you refer to "evil". So, does that mean that evil doesn't exist, or that merely regimes like Iraq don't qualify?
Evil exists, but we have to be careful in identifying it. I see it possibly in governments such as Iraq and Saudi Arabia. I don't see it in Iran or North Korea, two nations that have made little if any specific mentions of threat towards the US.

Quote:

Also, there's a big difference between "anti-US sentiment" and an concerted effort to murder Americans. That point should be obvious; it sickens me that it isn't.
Is it obvious? Were any of the terrorists from Iran or North Korea? No? Then why were those countries singled out? Based on what is known, most of the men had origins in Saudi Arabia. And even so, to label an entire nation full of "evil" is just the pot calling the kettle black. If we really want to show that we are civilized and committed to truth and justice, we should be naming terrorist organizations as our enemies, not the ordinary people of specific countries. The terrorist groups are not bound by any political borders, and we have to be careful not to act as though they only exist in certain countries. Many of them had previously made permanent residencies in countries such as Germany, England, and even the US.

Quote:

Finally, given the precision and deliberateness of the US government and military so far, I don't see any absence of reason or logic.
Precision? Tell that to the more than 5,000 Afghan civilians who have been killed in the bombing raids. That more than surpasses the total killed on September 11. I think that it is important to destroy the buildings that al-Qaeda is using but I hardly see the point of destroying homes, schools, and shops of the people of the nation. And yet I hardly ever hear anyone complaining that it is unfair to the people of Afghanistan.

Don't get me wrong. I think we need to have a military effort to get to the roots of terrorist groups and bring the leaders of these groups to trial. But what's a kid to think when his shopkeeper father is killed in a bombing raid, even though he had nothing to do with the attacks on the US? Is he supposed to believe that the US is his ally and that the war on terrorism is a good thing? We have to be careful not to make new enemies while eliminating our old ones. Otherwise, we are fighting a futile, neverending war.



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Old 01-31-2002, 01:00 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Foxxern:
Don't get me wrong. I think we need to have a military effort to get to the roots of terrorist groups and bring the leaders of these groups to trial. But what's a kid to think when his shopkeeper father is killed in a bombing raid, even though he had nothing to do with the attacks on the US? Is he supposed to believe that the US is his ally and that the war on terrorism is a good thing? We have to be careful not to make new enemies while eliminating our old ones. Otherwise, we are fighting a futile, neverending war.
This is an awesome comment, I really really hear ya Foxxern. I think this really gets the point across. And I totally agree with your comments on the slant the Media has taken since 9/11. I think the Media will do whatever will keep them in favor with the common viewer, and I think this is the slant that will keep them in favor with the tide of the nation at the moment.

Foxxern, your perspective on all of this is rare and refreshing. Thanks for adding to the dialogue.
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Old 01-31-2002, 03:07 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by hotasahandbag:
didn't watch it and won't. i quit watching any network news shortly after 9/11.
Oh Goodie.. I'm glad you're fed up too with the tiring liberal bias in the popular press.. That's great to hear! I applaud you.

L. Unplugged


[This message has been edited by Lemonite (edited 01-30-2002).]
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Old 01-31-2002, 03:15 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Foxxern:
Then why were those countries singled out? Based on what is known, most of the men had origins in Saudi Arabia.
Well I wonder why the US hasn't attacked Saudi Arabia. Do you think it has anything to do with the fact that the current rulers in that country aren't exactly opposed to US-owned oil companies operating in their country? Maybe it's because they place billions of dollars in bank accounts in Western countries. Interesting.

I wonder why the US is talking about an attack on Somalia. Well, they have oil reserves, as does the area of Ethiopia bordering Somalia. Interesting.
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Old 01-31-2002, 08:17 AM   #25
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Is there a link for the transcript?
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Old 01-31-2002, 08:31 AM   #26
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Here you go, luv: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...020129-11.html
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Old 01-31-2002, 09:39 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees:
Well I wonder why the US hasn't attacked Saudi Arabia. Do you think it has anything to do with the fact that the current rulers in that country aren't exactly opposed to US-owned oil companies operating in their country? Maybe it's because they place billions of dollars in bank accounts in Western countries. Interesting.
It also might be because Saudi Arabia allows our military to operate on their soil and keep tabs on Iraq.

But you're right--our current relationship with Saudi Arabia is not a good one. We help keep their corrupt dictatorship afloat while though the ordinary citizens and the terrorists despise them. The ordinary citizens despise the Saudi monarchy because they run a repressive theocracy, while the terrorists despise the Saudi monarchy because they're infidels for allowing US troops on their soil.

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Old 01-31-2002, 01:50 PM   #28
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Originally posted by melon:
The State of the Union is just a propaganda speech. It is never about the actual state of the union and has the same amount of truth as a campaign speech: none.

His domestic agenda is horrible. He tries to run this country like a dictator, his tax plan was fiscally irresponsible, and he has no solid approach to fixing this recession, outside of tax cuts. When businesses are paying nearly no taxes anyway, from over twenty years of successive tax cuts and other corporate welfare, how can you cut them further? Next, we'll be giving them handouts.

Melon

Just a few seperate thoughts... SEPERATE

I'm not so sure that the people view it as just a 'Politics as Usual Speech'... Say ... in the way the people are thinking of Dick G.'s response.... It was more of an American Speech.

I consistently read you compare 'handing out tax cuts' as something resembling the actions of a monkey or walking phallus, but seriously, we're in a recession (A Very very small one, where actually we're on the way out of it.. YEs I'll make the claim now.. The RECESSION IS OVER.. it's on the upswing).. I don't know why Liberals are so against tax cuts, they've always worked, but they never seem to see it..
One thing is certain in a recession..You Don't Raise TAxes.. which is what the liberals want to do.....You also don't just hand out more unemployment checks.. Where does that leave you at the end of the day?

Bush Got it Right.. JOBS.

And no.. Handouts are what Ya'll are all about (Liberals).. I'm surprised you would ever even venture to use that word.

The Last thing the Liberals want is to work this economy out, They Want you to THINK they do.. But, A thriving economy.. at least under a republican watch.. Is about as appealing to the liberals as .. well, I'll get in trouble if I make some sort of joke here.. But you get the idea...

Bush a DICTATOR???? That just doesn't fly with the people now.. People see BUsh Wanting to work together with the Liberals.. He's incorporated many of the liberal ideas into his agenda.. He goes out of his way to embrace Daschle and Dick G. After their speeches, He Embraces Ted Kennedy while they work together on issues.... I'm sorry.. wait .. no I'm not, that statement is not going to carry weight with the People.. It doesn't.. Because It just doesn't appear that way.. and In politics, APpearance is REality.

You cite the increased spending in the Montage 'Why increase spending while decreasing income?'.. And it does make logical sense, but you have to look at the long term picture, Yes, there will be deficits (Though I've referenced the Ten Year SURPLUS many times in this forum), there will be a debt to pay off, (But it's a two prong attack.. and It's not the end of the world to be in debt.. The economy gets rolling.. there's more money to pay off the debt) And to add on the increased military spending.. How can you shit on an increase in military spending, where a large large amount of that money is going to Homeland Defense?

And Here's a reason why you can't.. The reason for this is that If THere were to be another Attack on America.. The Economy would fall into a huuuuge tumble and there would be no way out for a long long time.

Sooo, In raising the bar of the military, BUsh is Actually Helping the Economy.

Just wait and see, The economy is already taking a turn for the better.. Come election time.. THe liberals will not have that huge weapon they are depending on.. (A bad economy) to fire at the Republicans.

L. Unplugged

[This message has been edited by Lemonite (edited 01-31-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Lemonite (edited 01-31-2002).]
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Old 01-31-2002, 07:39 PM   #29
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I could NOT believe some of the things he was saying.

Case in point, the Phillippines. Terrorists are there and we are there fighting them. Now Bush has the fantastic and *ORIGINAL* idea! Train the Philippinos to fight for themselves. HEEEELLLLOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! Remember Ronald Reagan?! Maybe oh I dunno, THE SCHOOL OF AMERICAS!!!??? Ohhh, wait maybe it will be more like the time we trained the Afghanis to fight the Soviets with *OUR* tactics. Beep beep back the truck up, those are the same people FIGHTING US NOW!!

This training thing may seem to be a good idea, but it DOES NOT work! I cannot believe Rumsfeld wants to do this! Did they skip over the 80s and early 90s (when SOMEONE'S dad was President) in their history books? If we carry this out it will be asking for people to attack us in the future.

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Old 02-02-2002, 06:08 PM   #30
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