Random Subway Bag Searches - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-21-2005, 12:07 PM   #1
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,984
Local Time: 05:51 AM
Random Subway Bag Searches

By SARA KUGLER, Associated Press Writer

Police will begin conducting random searches of packages and backpacks carried by people entering city subways, Mayor Michael Bloomberg announced Thursday after a new series of bomb attacks in London.

Authorities said the system is still being developed, but the plan is for passengers carrying bags to be selected at random before they have passed through turnstiles.

Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly promised that officers would not engage in racial profiling, and that passengers will be free to "turn around and leave" rather than consent to a search.

Officials would not immediately say how frequently the checks would occur. The checks are scheduled to begin at some stations by Thursday evening and will be occurring throughout the system by rush hour on Friday.

"We just live in a world where, sadly, these kinds of security measures are necessary," Bloomberg said. "Are they intrusive? Yes, a little bit. But we are trying to find that right balance."

Searching the bags of more than a token number of straphangers may be impossible.

New York's subways carry about 4.5 million passengers on the average weekday, according to the Metropolitan Transportation Authority.

There are 468 subway stations in the system, most of which have multiple entrances, and during rush hours, the flood of commuters hurrying in and out of key stations can be overwhelming.

Asked whether the searches might create bottlenecks at subway entrances, Kelly suggested the searches would be of a small enough sampling of passengers that only individuals, rather than whole crowds, would be delayed.

"We are going to do it in a reasonable commonsense way," he said.

Similar types of random searches of subway passengers have prompted complaints from civil liberties groups in other cities, and in some cases have been challenged in court.

Christopher Dunn, associate legal director of the New York Civil Liberties Union, said the searches in New York could be problematic, if not conducted properly.

"The department can and should be actively and aggressively investigating anyone they suspect of bringing explosives into the subway, but police searches of people without any individualized suspicion is contrary to our most basic constitutional values," he said.

Authorities said there is also a possibility that checks will be conducted on some bus and train passengers.



During the Democratic Convention in Boston they did these bag searches, some people protested them and wore buttons saying things like "I don't consent to a search"


I was more then willing to have my bag searched, you have your bags and person x rayed everytime you go on a plane. I do see the potential for abuse and profiling though
__________________

__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 07-21-2005, 12:40 PM   #2
Refugee
 
dazzlingamy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The city of blinding lights and amazing coffee - Melbourne.
Posts: 2,468
Local Time: 09:51 PM
i love the bit that said they can just walk away...

as if some transit police is going to say oh you dont want to be searched? ok off you go, enjoy your train ride..

*cough*

mmmmhmmm

and profilling will most definately happen!
__________________

__________________
dazzlingamy is offline  
Old 07-21-2005, 02:04 PM   #3
Refugee
 
XHendrix24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 1,496
Local Time: 05:51 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by dazzlingamy
i love the bit that said they can just walk away...

as if some transit police is going to say oh you dont want to be searched? ok off you go, enjoy your train ride..
I believe when he said that they could feel free to "turn around and leave," he meant that if they didn't comply to the search, they would have to leave the subway station. Not just go onto the train anyway.

Oh, and of course there will probably be some profiling. But profiling, to a degree, is probably necessary in these situations.

Though, that's a whole different debate completely, and one that I don't feel like getting into right now.
__________________
XHendrix24 is offline  
Old 07-21-2005, 02:05 PM   #4
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,984
Local Time: 05:51 AM
I don't think you can go on the subway if you refuse, I think that's the way it was during the convention
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 07-22-2005, 01:58 AM   #5
Refugee
 
dazzlingamy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The city of blinding lights and amazing coffee - Melbourne.
Posts: 2,468
Local Time: 09:51 PM
oh okies, i thought that seemed a little strange! lol

but still, unless they search everyone it isn't going to be that effective is it?1
__________________
dazzlingamy is offline  
Old 07-22-2005, 02:03 AM   #6
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 08:51 PM
It is more effective than searching nobody at all.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 07-22-2005, 05:27 AM   #7
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
DrTeeth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Q continuum
Posts: 4,770
Local Time: 11:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dazzlingamy
oh okies, i thought that seemed a little strange! lol

but still, unless they search everyone it isn't going to be that effective is it?1
I'm no mathematician but I think they have to search a shitload of people each day if they want it to have any decent statistical meaning. I mean, we are talking about 4.5 million passengers each day, so it's probably more a token gesture than anything.

Am I the only one who finds it funny that the London attacks seemed to have scared more people in New York than in London?
__________________
DrTeeth is offline  
Old 07-22-2005, 06:56 AM   #8
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
BluRmGrl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Leather Heaven
Posts: 7,808
Local Time: 06:51 AM
^
After 9/11/01, can you really blame New York for being skittish???
__________________
BluRmGrl is offline  
Old 07-22-2005, 07:24 AM   #9
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,494
Local Time: 05:51 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by DrTeeth
Am I the only one who finds it funny that the London attacks seemed to have scared more people in New York than in London?


no, i don't find it funny at all.

i don't think most Londoners find it funny either.

i ride the DC Metro every day of the week and there's a noticeably stepped-up police presence. not funny, or fun, at all.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 07-22-2005, 07:27 AM   #10
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
80sU2isBest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,970
Local Time: 05:51 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




no, i don't find it funny at all.

i don't think most Londoners find it funny either.

i ride the DC Metro every day of the week and there's a noticeably stepped-up police presence. not funny, or fun, at all.
I don't find it funny, either.
__________________
80sU2isBest is offline  
Old 07-22-2005, 07:30 AM   #11
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 10:51 AM
I'd be willing to be searched. I'd rather be safe, and as long as they are not doing any sort of profiling it's OK.
__________________
verte76 is offline  
Old 07-22-2005, 07:47 AM   #12
New Yorker
 
Sherry Darling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,857
Local Time: 06:51 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




no, i don't find it funny at all.

i don't think most Londoners find it funny either.

i ride the DC Metro every day of the week and there's a noticeably stepped-up police presence. not funny, or fun, at all.
Interesting to hear this--I haven't had occasion to be on metro in about a month (I'm in Alexandria). It's really be stepped up? I guess considering the DC metro stops at the Pentagon, National Airport, the WH and the Capitol, it was only a matter of time....
__________________
Sherry Darling is offline  
Old 07-22-2005, 07:54 AM   #13
pax
ONE
love, blood, life
 
pax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Ewen's new American home
Posts: 11,412
Local Time: 06:51 AM
Anna Quindlen wrote a fabulous column on this subject a while back, about how random searches could be far more effective if they were actually intelligent. She wrote that of course it makes very little sense to strip-search a 70-year-old woman on her way to Fort Lauderdale and more sense to search (sorry for this) an unaccompanied, hurried Iraqi man with a one-way ticket to Newark, say. But she added that it would be much more efficient and effective to use techniques that already exist to create more complete behavioral profiles of potential terrorists, both domestically and internationally, such that anyone who fit the profile, regardless of national origin, immigration status, skin color, etc. would be searched more thoroughly. This, I suspect, is the kind of profiling/searching procedure that makes sense, has the potential to be highly effective, and is non-discriminatory in terms of categories like national origin.

If more (for example) young-to-middle-aged Middle Eastern Muslim men showed up, based on this profiling, than any other group, well, then, too bad, I suppose. At least then I would feel more comfortable knowing that any profiling was done intelligently and in an unbiased manner.

Of course, this generally applies more to airports rather than subways or other ground public transit, where generally time and volume constraints don't allow for this kind of thoroughness. Still, it's worth thinking about.

I hope I've explained myself well here...I'll try to rustle up the Quindlen column and post a link, but it's pretty old.
__________________
and you hunger for the time
time to heal, desire, time


Join Amnesty.
pax is offline  
Old 07-22-2005, 07:54 AM   #14
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
kobayashi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: the ether
Posts: 5,142
Local Time: 06:51 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by DrTeeth


I'm no mathematician but I think they have to search a shitload of people each day if they want it to have any decent statistical meaning. I mean, we are talking about 4.5 million passengers each day, so it's probably more a token gesture than anything.
random searching, albeit severely limited for a myriad of reasons, certainly has token value in that mass transit users will be comforted that something is being done. additionally, i imagine one of the last things a terrorist group would want is one of their own 'captured' alive. although the chances of such capture are slim, it may force groups or individuals to think twice before sending someone out.
__________________
im the candyman. and the candyman is back.
kobayashi is offline  
Old 07-22-2005, 08:01 AM   #15
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,494
Local Time: 05:51 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Sherry Darling


Interesting to hear this--I haven't had occasion to be on metro in about a month (I'm in Alexandria). It's really be stepped up? I guess considering the DC metro stops at the Pentagon, National Airport, the WH and the Capitol, it was only a matter of time....

i practically live on Metro, so perhaps i notice it more. yes, i do see more secruity guards, especially at the bigger stations (Metro Center, L'Enfant Plaza). though they give me little comfort as they usually look really bored and are chatting amongst themselves. i think they're really just for show because we haven't heard of any direct threat to the DC Metro system.

though i do remember, during one of those politically manufactured Orange Alerts in 2003, i was living off Rte. 7 in Falls Church and there was a secruity guard at the Whole Foods.

that was a little odd.
__________________

__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com