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Old 10-04-2005, 08:18 PM   #16
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Someone I used to be on a U2 discussion list on yahoogroups was from Israel, and she told me about a town there where they have an art show every year. Both Muslims and Jews participate. Unfortunately, I forget the name of the town. No, they don't hate each other.
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Old 10-04-2005, 08:22 PM   #17
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Originally posted by financeguy
Let's face it, they hate each other.

I look forward to the day when all Jewish, Muslim, Christian and other religious 'holy' days are abolished.
What a great contribution to this thread!

I consider myself Jewish in heritage (if not in personal beliefs) and oddly enough don't hate Muslims. I'm even friends with people from Bangladesh and Iran. Shocker I know...

Anyway happy Rosh Hashanah/Ramadan, and I hope (though I'm not counting on anything) that we can take this time to realize how similar we are to another.
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Old 10-04-2005, 11:36 PM   #18
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Originally posted by Sherry Darling
There are two basic kinds of religious oppression. One is to require religion; the other is to ban it.
I'm not sure if this is a reaction to my post, but I am not in favour of 'banning' religion, neither am I in favour of 'repressing' it. I expressed an aspiration, no more than that, and I did so speaking as a firm agnostic (with some pagan leanings).

I suppose if I had to prioiritise at this point in time, I would view modern Christianity and modern Judaism as being much more advanced than modern Islam, which might preach lip service to human rights, etc, yet consistently fails to condemn acts of terrorism done in its name.

And no, that's not preaching 'hate' against Muslims, it's just my honest view, based on my own readings and findings, and my own life experience.

One of my friends happens to be a (non-devout, non-fundamentalist Muslim) and frankly he has strong anti-Semitic views, much as I have sought to persuade him away from them. Even though he despises Islamist terrorism as much as anyone on here, he will openly admit to me that he dislikes Jews having influence.

I would also mention in passing, that if you are an Israeli citizen, you cannot be admitted into Malaysia, a so-called 'moderate' Muslim country. That is fact.
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Old 10-04-2005, 11:37 PM   #19
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Originally posted by Anthony
OK guys - the thread was clearly meant to be a celebration of the two holidays and the two faiths, not an attack on either of them. Pretty interesting topics, but if people are looking for a more argumentative approach please start another thread, respectful in tone, of court.
Ok sorry.

Now I'm off to burn a Koran.
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Old 10-04-2005, 11:40 PM   #20
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Originally posted by Carek1230
Isn't that just another form of hate?



YEs it certainly is another form of hate and a Mod should be notified in my opinion. Anyone else?

No my friend, I expressed an aspiration, no more than that.

To put that on the level of 'preaching hate' is utter and complete bullshit, and to seek recruits for trying to get me admonished by a mod, is effectively a form of on-line bullying, and certainly much more hateful than anything I said.
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Old 10-05-2005, 12:13 AM   #21
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Originally posted by financeguy
No my friend, I expressed an aspiration, no more than that.
An "aspiration"??? What BS

Many a tyrant gained strength through their hateful "aspirations".


Not only is it appropriate to send good wishes to those who celebrate these holidays, it is also a chance to see what we can learn from them.
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Old 10-05-2005, 12:50 AM   #22
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Originally posted by financeguy



No my friend, I expressed an aspiration, no more than that.

To put that on the level of 'preaching hate' is utter and complete bullshit, and to seek recruits for trying to get me admonished by a mod, is effectively a form of on-line bullying, and certainly much more hateful than anything I said.

Please. Based on things you have posted, you are certainly not my friend, so please kindly refrain from using that term or tone when responding to one of my posts.
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Old 10-05-2005, 12:54 AM   #23
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
An "aspiration"??? What BS

Many a tyrant gained strength through their hateful "aspirations".
I don't agree.

By the same argument, a Christian expressing the aspiration that everyone would turn to Christ (as many Christians do) is 'preaching hate'. To express the view that Christ is the only way to God (as a number of people have on here, and I would defend utterly their right to do so), is akin to 'preaching hate'. As I said, there is a big difference between expressing aspirations, and preaching hate.

When John Lennon wrote the lyrics to 'Imagine' - 'Imagine there's no heaven, no hell beneath us...', etc, was he a tyrant, gaining strength through his hateful aspirations? I think not.
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Old 10-05-2005, 12:59 AM   #24
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Originally posted by Carek1230
Please. Based on things you have posted, you are certainly not my friend, so please kindly refrain from using that term or tone when responding to one of my posts.


I am not sure what I have posted that has so offended you. The reality is that I expressed my view point, speaking as an agnostic, and I stand by it 100%.

You, on the other hand, accused me of preaching hate (do you hate all non-believers, bud, or just the ones that express a view point?) and tried to get other posters to gang up against me, which as I said, constitutes a form of on-line intimidation.
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Old 10-05-2005, 01:39 AM   #25
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Normal

People need to relax their is nothing wrong with financeguy's posts, at least in this thread their is nothing hateful about his comments it wasn't the smartest thing to say but it's far from being a hateful comment at least by what he meant
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Old 10-05-2005, 02:05 AM   #26
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No- what financeguy has posted was not the smartest thing, it was ignorant. Stating in a public forum about buring a religious book of worship may be one's own opinion but leave it at that. By stating somesuch is this person not looking for attention? Inviting the wrong kind of attention as most of us know it will be? It is to get a rise out of people and unfortunately there are many folks who enjoy doing such. I'll choose not to perpetuate this discussion any further, as I choose not to associate with the likes of people who see, so strongly opinionated against the grain or against what I believe.
Good night and have a pleasant tomorrow.
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Old 10-05-2005, 04:28 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by pax
Anyway, wishing our Muslim and Jewish post-ers blessed and prayerful holy days.
Thanks very much, pax (and fellow well-wishers).

And a ritually inappropriate to everyone making this thread yet another occasion for muttering darkly about the sinister alliance of creed'n'screed . Sheesh guys, it's a frickin' HOLIDAY GREETING CARD, can you handle it?!? I'd hate to see what sort of dour missives you inscribe on your Christmas cards (though somehow I suspect that holiday wins an honorary exemption...you know, Western cultural foundations and all).

Anyway--maybe you don't give a damn whether we have a nice holiday or not; which is fine, no one's offended...but in that case, why post in this thread at all?

G'mar Chatimah Tovah y'all! (May your good mention in the Book of Life be sealed for another year.)
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Old 10-05-2005, 09:53 AM   #28
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Originally posted by financeguy

Even though he despises Islamist terrorism as much as anyone on here, he will openly admit to me that he dislikes Jews having influence.

I would also mention in passing, that if you are an Israeli citizen, you cannot be admitted into Malaysia, a so-called 'moderate' Muslim country. That is fact.


there is some truth to this.

i think, at least in the States, we're pretty much sealed off from the anti-Semitism that's in most of the Muslim world, and even still in parts of Europe. in the US, where Jews are, in many ways, the most successful group that has ever immigrated (at least until recently, as it's now South Asian Indians ... yet, the two groups have a high rate of intermarriage and give birth to the cutest word i've heard of in a while Hin-Jews), and most anti-Semitic language is simply laughed at. we don't have much of a history of anti-Semitism, and whatever has existed, is mostly in right wing paranoia about communists and the fact that, well, Jews tend to be pretty successful. it's easy to hate those who are successful (and, interestingly, much of anti-semitism has parallels with homophobia ... but that's another thread).

however, it is astonishing the extent to which the Israeli/Palestinian crisis (for lack of a better word) has been turned into the defining paradigm for how a large part of the Muslim world understands geopolitics -- that the Jews (led by ... who? Steven Spielberg?) control America, who in turn funds and arms Israel, who then oppresses Muslims. it fuels conspiracy theories, and leads to precisely the kind of amazingly discriminitory policies like FG has pointed to.

point me to another country that has a similar law aimed at any one religion.

what this does show to me, again, is that 1) religion is a human institution, and 2) it contains more power than any other institution because it posits access to the divine and the infinite and the absolute, and can thus be wielded as a weapon of death on par with any WMD.
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Old 10-05-2005, 10:21 AM   #29
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Don't burn that Koran, I want to read it.
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Old 10-05-2005, 10:37 AM   #30
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I have many Muslim friends, none of them have ever expressed any opinions on Jewish people but have accepted me as a Christian as I have accepted them as Muslims.

Malaysia is a great country, I think the people there are nicer than those in Singapore, personally. Don't slag it off.
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