Ralph Nader on Sunday Feb 24 "Meet the Press" - Page 4 - U2 Feedback

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Old 02-25-2008, 09:30 AM   #46
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you mean besides having more points of view represented??

what's so great about the two party system? having one party controlling 2/3rds of the branches? low voter turn out due to gridlock of both parties who can become so lukewarm that people like myself feel alienated in elections?
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Old 02-25-2008, 09:50 AM   #47
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What is so great about a multi-party system? Is it the fragile coalition governments?
I don't exactly see how our system is any more stable. There seems to be a choice between one-party domination and complete gridlock.

The main reason I like the idea of multi-party governments is that you just flat out get more ideas. And guess what? If a coalition fractures in parliamentary democracy and government ceases to effectively function, you, at least, get another election sooner rather than later, rather than in our system, where nothing gets done for who knows how many years until the next election.

Either way, it is pretty damn clear that we won't have multi-party democracy, as long as we have this crappy party machine-driven primary process. This current method for choosing our candidates is outright unacceptable.
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Old 02-25-2008, 09:52 AM   #48
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if i had your eloquence i'd make so much more sense to the rest of the world.
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Old 02-25-2008, 09:53 AM   #49
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Originally posted by Diemen

But he didn't. We didn't hear a damn thing from him or any other major third party candidates during the off election years,
Nader is first and foremost, an excellent citizen. He has been consistently and not all that quietly working away in the background as he always has his entire career. He has written numerous open letters to Bush throughout the last 8 years on everything from torture to Darfur, and has his opinions published wherever he can. He may not have been on yours and MSM's radar and hasn't received the media coverage he does during an election cycle, but he most definitely has not been quiet. That is precisely the point of Ralph Nader. He is always working as a watchdog and an involved citizen.
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Old 02-25-2008, 10:33 AM   #50
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I'm still waiting on Lou Dobbs. That would be really fun.
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Old 02-25-2008, 11:01 AM   #51
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people shouldn't have to vote to stop someone else. they should vote for their top choice candidate. that sort of "only one or the other" or "steal the votes" mentality is nothing but a trap to perpetuate an already flawed system.
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Old 02-25-2008, 11:09 AM   #52
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Originally posted by melon


I don't exactly see how our system is any more stable. There seems to be a choice between one-party domination and complete gridlock.

The main reason I like the idea of multi-party governments is that you just flat out get more ideas. And guess what? If a coalition fractures in parliamentary democracy and government ceases to effectively function, you, at least, get another election sooner rather than later, rather than in our system, where nothing gets done for who knows how many years until the next election.

Either way, it is pretty damn clear that we won't have multi-party democracy, as long as we have this crappy party machine-driven primary process. This current method for choosing our candidates is outright unacceptable.
Ok then.
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Old 02-25-2008, 11:26 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon


I don't exactly see how our system is any more stable. There seems to be a choice between one-party domination and complete gridlock.

The main reason I like the idea of multi-party governments is that you just flat out get more ideas. And guess what? If a coalition fractures in parliamentary democracy and government ceases to effectively function, you, at least, get another election sooner rather than later, rather than in our system, where nothing gets done for who knows how many years until the next election.

Either way, it is pretty damn clear that we won't have multi-party democracy, as long as we have this crappy party machine-driven primary process. This current method for choosing our candidates is outright unacceptable.
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Old 02-25-2008, 11:54 AM   #54
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Originally posted by martha
What is so great about a multi-party system? Is it the fragile coalition governments?
Not every multi-party country is Italy.
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Old 02-25-2008, 01:02 PM   #55
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Not every multi-party country is Italy.
They were who I was thinking of.
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Old 02-25-2008, 02:14 PM   #56
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I've once heard someone say: "The Germans are interested in and know of the politics of every country... except the Italian ones, that's too confusing even for them."

I don't know if he was an Italian himself, but it was no German.
They are a special breed.
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Old 02-25-2008, 09:26 PM   #57
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Originally posted by joyfulgirl


Nader is first and foremost, an excellent citizen. He has been consistently and not all that quietly working away in the background as he always has his entire career. He has written numerous open letters to Bush throughout the last 8 years on everything from torture to Darfur, and has his opinions published wherever he can. He may not have been on yours and MSM's radar and hasn't received the media coverage he does during an election cycle, but he most definitely has not been quiet. That is precisely the point of Ralph Nader. He is always working as a watchdog and an involved citizen.
But he apparently has been unable to build a movement strong enough to make a credible run at the presidency. Which makes me, again, wonder, why he's running if not because of an inflated ego. Again most candidates bow out when they realize they don't have the support of the people (who are supposedly the ones that this government is of, by, and for). This guy STARTS running when he doesn't have the support of the people. If you can explain to me how that is NOT an ego exercise, I'm willing to listen and be corrected.
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Old 02-26-2008, 02:06 AM   #58
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Originally posted by maycocksean


But he apparently has been unable to build a movement strong enough to make a credible run at the presidency. Which makes me, again, wonder, why he's running if not because of an inflated ego. Again most candidates bow out when they realize they don't have the support of the people (who are supposedly the ones that this government is of, by, and for). This guy STARTS running when he doesn't have the support of the people. If you can explain to me how that is NOT an ego exercise, I'm willing to listen and be corrected.
He knows full well he won't ever be President but I'm glad his voice continues to be out there. I'm not interested in having you listen to me and "be corrected," that's not the point. If during an election cycle is how he can be heard, then I'm glad he's running. People need to hear more ideas, to hear that A or A- aren't the only options out there--not just for President but as a way of thinking and handling problems. I won't be voting for Ralph Nader but I am certainly not threatened by his presence in any election, regardless of how that plays out. Third party candidates need to be heard. Al Gore won the popular vote of the election Nader so-called "stole" and everyone's anger about that is sorely misplaced.
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Old 02-26-2008, 05:22 AM   #59
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He knows full well he won't ever be President but I'm glad his voice continues to be out there. I'm not interested in having you listen to me and "be corrected," that's not the point. If during an election cycle is how he can be heard, then I'm glad he's running. People need to hear more ideas, to hear that A or A- aren't the only options out there--not just for President but as a way of thinking and handling problems. I won't be voting for Ralph Nader but I am certainly not threatened by his presence in any election, regardless of how that plays out. Third party candidates need to be heard. Al Gore won the popular vote of the election Nader so-called "stole" and everyone's anger about that is sorely misplaced.
Truth be told, I'm not angry at all. I don't blame Nader for Gore's loss nor do I feel he'll have much of an impact in this year's election. This dicussion is really just an academic exercise for me (which is perhaps why I'm more willing than usual to be corrected ) I just think that his presidential run is basically about his ego--he doesn't need to think he can win for it be about his ego. I'm all for more ideas out there, I'm just not convinced that running a hopless presidential campaign is the best way to do that. Shoot, he didn't have to run for president to make a huge difference in terms of highway saftey. Now suddenly the only way for him to be heard is to run for president? I don't buy it.

I think we may be misreading eachother? Because I'm really not as pissy as I must sound to you
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Old 02-26-2008, 09:13 AM   #60
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Truth be told, I'm not angry at all. I don't blame Nader for Gore's loss nor do I feel he'll have much of an impact in this year's election. This dicussion is really just an academic exercise for me (which is perhaps why I'm more willing than usual to be corrected ) I just think that his presidential run is basically about his ego--he doesn't need to think he can win for it be about his ego. I'm all for more ideas out there, I'm just not convinced that running a hopless presidential campaign is the best way to do that. Shoot, he didn't have to run for president to make a huge difference in terms of highway saftey. Now suddenly the only way for him to be heard is to run for president? I don't buy it.

I think we may be misreading eachother? Because I'm really not as pissy as I must sound to you
Yeah, you sounded kinda pissy but I slept it off.

People are paying more attention now than they normally do. It was already mentioned "where was Nader during Abu Ghraib?" Well, he was right there doing what he always does and no one paid any attention to him. I think he is seizing an opportunity when people are dissatisfied and paying attention, many for the first time. He's there to say the "change" people are saying they want is not going to come in the form of an Obama or a Clinton, both working within a deeply corrupt system. Obama stands for the idea of change, not for change itself because as long as anyone is holding up the corrupt system their ability to effect real, meaningful, lasting, change is limited. I'm not taking a dig at Obama here (I'll probably be voting for him in Nov) I'm saying, anyone in his shoes will be limited.

So Nader, right or wrong, is taking another stand when people are paying more attention. He got 2.7% of the vote in 2000, and 0.3% in 2004. Obviously, his impact on this election will be smaller (if he even gets on the ballot, he'll probably only get the votes of people who wouldn't vote at all otherwise), so it's silly that people are even bothering to come out and denounce him. The fact that the Democrats aren't going to win in November by a landslide is really pathetic; the fact that the Democrats won Congress back but have done nothing, is pathetic. I think this is Nader's point. He believes the Democratic party and the two-party system has to collapse, that things have to get even worse before people will see that, and therefore he continues to run and get media coverage. I don't think his ego is any bigger than anyone else's running for President but unlike the others, I do think he would not be easily corrupted. Unfortunately he's not the electable guy we need with his ideas but I hope someday someone electable with his ideas will run and win. There should always be a Ralph Nader out there.
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