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Old 06-05-2006, 05:43 AM   #16
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Flippen 'eck you lot talk some shite!

As an avid UK football fan and Englishman I must reply.

1. England has a terrible PAST of football related violence and IS doing something about it.

2. England have introduced banning orders on over 3000 known trouble makers who have to hand in their passports (last week I think) and have to report to their local police station at the time of every England game thereby ensuring none of them can leave the country.

PLEASE NOTE England are the ONLY country that has such measures!

3. The last England -v- Germany game at Wembly and the last one in Germany passed off without any trouble!

4. England are not alone - In Italy fans are stabbed regularly, flares and fireworks are thrown within the crowd and at the players even a motorycle scooter was thrown from the top tier into a section of Crowd at an italien league game!! In Turkey the fans behavious is despicable and they have even been responsible for the deaths of several opposition fans. In Germany and Poland they are struggling to cope with massive hooligan problems, in spain the racist abuse is rife as it is in nearly all the eastern bloc countries! In France they have a massive gang culture amongst immigrants that target visiting football fans and in Holland they have a notorious hooligan problem that has never gone away. In S Amercia and Argentina etc the fans problem is well known and attacks on players, officials and fans alike are commonplace. In Africa matches have been abandoned due to gang warfare involving machetes and axes!

The difference here is that England acted against the problem and you now cant even take a can of pop into a match let alone a firework or scooter! Anyone chanting racist comments is removed indeed anyone swearing to loudly or being half out of order is removed. Other nations haven't done anything about the problems they face as they for so long thought the problem was an English one - its not - and in comparison the situation that England has now controlled is nowhere near as bad as the problems many other countries have now but aren't dealing with.

5. Euro '96 passed off in England with no real trouble between supporters either inside or outside the grounds (although there were some idiot England loonies that caused trouble after England were knocked out in the semi's but that was mainly towards property rather than opposing fans!)

6. Ashes cricket hooliganism!! - what are you on about. The Barmy Army as they are nicknamed are loved by all, never cause trouble, respect the sport and the players from both sides and get respect back for their quality support.

7. As for Mr or Mrs 4U2play who is now overtly anti racism whereas in a previous thread a bit of racist banter at work is good fun! You did at least separate England as taking measures in your thread so fair play for that but since when is America so squeky clean! Its a miracle if you can get to a sporting event without being shot first! Your gang culture is some of the worst in the world and is endorsed by a large section of your music industry. Sport is not exempt in America. I understand that whilst there is little trouble in the stadiums there are problems outside and there have been full scale riots following hockey games and college football games after sections of fans have drunk too much and then failed to disperse.

Its a global problem that England are leading the world in trying to eradicate. When the rest of the world catches up who know, the day may come when we can all sit together and enjoy our football regardless of who we support. Sadly I doubt I will see that in my lifetime.
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Old 06-05-2006, 09:49 AM   #17
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wasn't there a city-wide curfew in Marseille in 98 due to the English supporters rioting ?

In the US, those of us who get to games without being shot (bwahahahaha!!!!! ROFLMAO at that one), fans of opposing teams freely intermingle. No cattle-like herding of fans into assigned ground locations to avoid widespread fighting and violence.

The gangs comment was funny too, such ignorance of the US



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Old 06-05-2006, 10:09 AM   #18
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Originally posted by CKONE
7. As for Mr or Mrs 4U2play who is now overtly anti racism whereas in a previous thread a bit of racist banter at work is good fun! You did at least separate England as taking measures in your thread so fair play for that but since when is America so squeky clean! Its a miracle if you can get to a sporting event without being shot first! Your gang culture is some of the worst in the world and is endorsed by a large section of your music industry. Sport is not exempt in America. I understand that whilst there is little trouble in the stadiums there are problems outside and there have been full scale riots following hockey games and college football games after sections of fans have drunk too much and then failed to disperse.

Its a global problem that England are leading the world in trying to eradicate. When the rest of the world catches up who know, the day may come when we can all sit together and enjoy our football regardless of who we support. Sadly I doubt I will see that in my lifetime.

woah woah woah woah woah...

first off, this thread was re: the blatant racism that goes on in european soccer/football matches, not even touching on the disgusting acts of hooliganism that occur.

is there racism in american sports? yes... is there violence in american sports? yes... but nothing remotely close to the extent of what goes on at soccer matches throughout the globe. i don't want to be one of those "your problems are worse so our problems are ok" guys, but the comments you're making are so far from reality that i have to respond.

if one person... ONE PERSON... was to throw a banana at a player on the field/court in a major american sporting event, it would be front page news for a week. that person would be arrested for a hate crime, probably recieve a lifetime ban from the arena, and would be vilified by the press and public alike. in many sections of europe, this type of behavior not only goes on, but it is tolerated, with the excuse often given of "oh they're just trying to get the opponent off their game," which is probably the most rediculous thing i've ever heard.

it's a miracle to get to a sporting event without getting shot first? are you mad? all i can talk about is the games where i've been, which are mostly in new york... but i can tell you, there is no safer place in the city than around the area of a sporting venue during a major sporting event because of the massive police presence. lucky not to get shot? please... get your facts straight.

have their been "riots" after games by rowdy drunks? yea... an overturned car, a knocked down sign, a bonfire... normaly set by rowdy college kids after college football games. is it a problem? yes... and campus' across the nation have done whatever they can to stop it, including the ban of alcohol sales at NCAA events that was introduced this past school year.



i like how everyone is making excuses... "oh it happens in america too," "oh they're just pulling for their team," "blah blah blah."

there is NO excuse for this type of behavior. it's disgusting. it has no place in society.
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Old 06-05-2006, 10:15 AM   #19
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Originally posted by CKONE
Flippen 'eck you lot talk some shite!

There's no need to be so rude.
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Old 06-05-2006, 10:21 AM   #20
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"Its a global problem that England are leading the world in trying to eradicate."

Was my final comment. That refers to hooliganism, violence and racism. JUst to clarity that if someone shouts rascist abuse at an English football match they do get arrested, they do get lifetime bans - it is not taken lightly.

I know I was making a rash generalisation about america and your gun crime problem, it got your attention though! It does highlight the fact that only bad things make good press! On both sides of the atlantic. I am not naive enough to think all americans are dodging bullets to work everyday niether I hope are you so naive as to believe racism and hooliganism are at all tolerated in England. It no longer is and hasnt been for a long time.

I am envious of the situation where opposing fans can mix at sporting events. I also watch rugby and international and club fans always mix without any problems. The atmosphere is great and I wish it was like that at football. I tried to go to a match with my 72 year old uncle (he is a baggies fan and I am a villa fan). He barely celebrated a baggies goal at villa park and was ejected. Obviously I went with him but it is sad when we cant sit together for a game and enjoy a drink and banter after the game!

HIAS wrote "in many sections of europe, this type of behavior not only goes on, but it is tolerated". Not in England it isnt but it is a problem elsewhere in Europe as I highlighted.

So it seems to me there is bad everywhere, the press love it, but probably 95% of sports fans everywhere go for the sport and not for the rascism, the violence, the drink fuelled riots...unfortunately thats what the press highlight!
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Old 06-05-2006, 10:31 AM   #21
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Sorry, pal, the Europeans are going to have to face up to this problem on their own, no blaming the yanks this time!
I came into this thread because I'm interested in what the views are of people here concerning racism/hooliganism in the upcoming world cup
I have no interest at all in your hangups about world politics


I saw part of a documentary just the other night about the english footy fans and it is a fact that the last decade they have been behaving a whole lot better
let just hope this continues and that the idiots will be stopped who want to use football as a way to make their racist views known
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Old 06-05-2006, 10:47 AM   #22
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3000 banning orders has something to do with it! The problem I have is that whilst it is a global problem (and I accept football seems to be the main sport that suffers) the English get the worst press and despite all our efforts (which vastly outweigh those of our European counterparts and S American counterparts) that bad press continues.

The focus will be on English fans again despite their impeccable behaviour at the last two European Cup Finals, their impeccable behaviour at Euro 2004 and WC 2002.

In Marseille in 98 it was the case that the English fans were attacked by local immigrant gangs before the tunisia game. England fans were forced to defend themselves and the police only served to make the situation worse. There were England Hooligans there (I am not exonerating England from all blame) but the majority of trouble was not instigated by the English.

I have watched England home and away. Watching England away is a frightening experience. It used to be frightening because of the English Hooligans starting trouble around genuine fans and then everyone gets caught up in it. Lately it is frightening for the way England fans can be dealt with by opposing authorities because of reputation.

The fact is that the trouble is caused by a minority, England have clamped down on that minority and made great inroads into dealing with the problem. Other countries need to idenify their problem and similarly crack down.

I hope with all sincerity that there is no trouble at the world cup. I also hope that we get Germany in the final because it will be a belter (personally I think it will be England -v- Italy final) and that game passes without incident.

I do have concerns though as there are a lot of rumours regarding trouble (few regarding England so far) but many regarding clashes already organised between Poland and Germany fans. I hope they remain purely as rumours.

I also hope you american interferees will take me to a 'Skins game one day so i can enjoy a mixed support sport event in the states
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Old 06-05-2006, 11:43 AM   #23
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on the hooligan front i must say that around the world England is infamous for their hooliganism, the ashes cricket for example, the 'balmey army' abuse australian fans and players!
Really? Do Australians really think of the Barmy Army like that or are you just joking? I (perhaps wrongly) thought the Barmy Army were just lovable rogues who brought fun and frolics to the game, not tattooed anarchists!
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Old 06-05-2006, 11:47 AM   #24
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Really? Do Australians really think of the Barmy Army like that or are you just joking? I (perhaps wrongly) thought the Barmy Army were just lovable rogues who brought fun and frolics to the game, not tattooed anarchists!
the barmy army are totally friendly cricket lovers that respect the game and the players and our biggest foes, the aussies. the banter and respect is two way between fans and players and to suggest the barmy army are in any way a hooligan element is ridiculous. perhaps some peopla still want the days of lords watching cricket in silence while dozing in their chairs!!
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Old 06-05-2006, 11:48 AM   #25
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i like how everyone is making excuses... "oh it happens in america too," "oh they're just pulling for their team," "blah blah blah."
That seems to be a unique US trait. No sooner do we see a valid problem elsewhere in the world and it gets marginalized with the hypothetical US response.
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Old 06-05-2006, 01:59 PM   #26
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The problem of racism in European football is being described by some as "endemic".

Players, fans and ethnic minority communities are abused regularly in some parts of Europe where far right activity is rife and National Football Federations are in denial of the problem.

European problem
Neo-nazi and neo-fascist groups target football grounds in Europe in the same way that the National Front and other far right groups targetted English Football stadiums as a recuitment ground. Among the worst affected clubs are Lazio and Verona in Italy, Paris Saint-Germain in France, and Real Madrid and Real Zaragoza in Spain.

Southern Europe
The problem of racism in Southern Europe was highlighted when England's black players received mass monkey chants from thousands of fans at the Bernabeu in their friendly game against Spain in Novemeber 2004.

There has since been an increasing number of incidents where black players have been racially abused in Spanish football.

Last season (2004/05), Real Zaragoza were fined 600 euros by the Spanish Football Federation (RFEF) after a section of their fans directed racist abuse at Barcelona forward, Samuel Eto'o. Athletico Madrid were also fined 6000 euros by the RFEF for the racial abuse of Espanyol's Cameroon goalkeeper Carlos Kameni in a league match. Deportivo Coruna, Albacete, and Getafe also received fines for similar incidents in their grounds.

In Italy, Messina's Ivory Coast defender Zoro threatened to halt a Serie A game in Italy this season after suffering racial abuse from visiting Inter Milan supporters.

Other prominent problems in the past in Italy include when a Jewish player, Ronnie Rosenthal, was unable to play even one game for Udinese because of massive pressure from neo-fascist circles and Aaron Winter, a native of Suriname of Hindustani extraction was subject to attacks at Lazio involving cries of 'Niggers and Jews Out'.

Central and Eastern Europe
In Central and Eastern Europe problems of racism, and anti-Semitism in particular, are a part of every day life. The racist abuse directed at England's black players in the Euro2004 qualifier against Slovakia in 2002 brought the issue to the attention of the international football community.

However, the problem of widespread racism in Central and Eastern European football stadiums had existed long before with black players playing in the domestic Leagues of countries including Poland, Hungary, Slovakia and Romania being subjected to mass monkey chanting and being pelted with Bananas every week.

Challenge
To challenge the problem anti- racism campaigners, ethnic minority communities and some National Football Associations have set up anti- racism campaigns to raise awareness of the problem and encourage fans to stand against racism.

-- http://www.kickitout.org









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Old 06-05-2006, 02:16 PM   #27
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Sunday afternoon's (Sunday, Nov 27, 2005) match between Messina and Internazionale was marred by monkey chants and other racist abuse aimed at the Ivory Coast defender by sections of the away support. A quarter of an hour into the second half, Zoro decided he'd had enough, picked up the ball and approached the referee to request that the game be suspended.

There followed the curious scene of Inter's Brazilian striker Adriano desperately trying to drag Zoro back by the shirt to stop him reaching the official. When these attempts failed, the subsequent sideline conference between the referee and Zoro was interrupted by Adriano and two other Inter players, Obafemi Martins and Marco Materazzi, who convinced Zoro to play on.

"They were very kind" said Marc afterwards. "Martins and Adriano both said that this kind of thing happens to them a lot too, and not to let it provoke me. But they seemed more concerned with getting the game restarted and avoiding any complications than anything else. I came back on to avoid causing them problems." The final whistle saw Zoro's story flash all over Italy.
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Old 06-05-2006, 02:54 PM   #28
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Last season (2004/05), Real Zaragoza were fined 600 euros by the Spanish Football Federation (RFEF) after a section of their fans directed racist abuse at Barcelona forward, Samuel Eto'o. [/img]
It was actually a 9000 euro fine. still nowhere near enough of a punishment.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mai...3/ixfooty.html
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Old 06-05-2006, 10:08 PM   #29
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I think the very existence of the sources Headache has brought up (such as the kick it out website) proves that measures are being taken; obviously now the question is the effectiveness of these measures. Also to suggest that these are normal, everyday happenings in league matches is ridiculous. The problem is almost erdadicated in England (as pointed out, albeit in a fairly jingoistic flag-waving fashion by CKONE) and anyone doing anything on the level of monkey chants will be villified and banned and whatnot. The days of 'Everton are white' and banana-throwing are thankfully all but over in England.

Also the problem is a mainly European one; I have not to my knowledge heard of any such incidents involving Asian or South American leagues and countries. There was one occurence here in the Singapore league though, when after the London bombings a well-known English coach of a local team (who also did pundit work for ESPN) called an Indian Singaporean player of the opposition by a racial epithet; it was subsequently investigated and the coach cleared. There's also the disgusting behaviour of Chinese football fans during the recent Asian Cup when Japan played, which most sections of the Asian media brushed off by suggesting that our lot deserved it for our wartime atrocities.

But perhaps therein lies the crux of the problem. Sport is meant to unite and to forget the politics of the world, but it's very easy to get caught up in mob mentalities and to bring in outside ideologies. A football pitch is a pretty easy outlet for nationalistic frustrations. Sometimes this translates into friendly rivalry, most times it doesn't.
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