Racial Profiling Or Legitimate Grounds For Suspicion And Arrest?

[MrsSpringsteen]

Were they targeted because they are of Arab descent, or is it just based upon their behavior? Or both? Would anyone buying that many cell phones be targeted, be a suspect, be arrested? I would certainly hope so, but honestly I don't know for sure.

"Tuscola County prosecutor Mark E. Reene told the Saginaw News in Michigan that investigators believe the men were targeting the Mackinac Bridge, which connects Michigan's Upper and Lower peninsulas. He declined to say what led investigators to that belief."

I would assume they have evidence to back up this belief.

By Jamie Stengle, Associated Press | August 14, 2006

DALLAS -- The wife of one of three Texas men arraigned on terrorism-related charges in Michigan says her husband and his relatives are not terrorists, but are simply trying to make money by reselling cellphones.

``They're locked up in jail for something that they didn't do," said Lina Odeh, 20.

Her husband, Louai Abdelhamied Othman of Mesquite, his brother, Adham Abdelhamid Othman of Dallas, and their cousin, Maruan Awad Muhareb of Mesquite, were arraigned Saturday on charges of collecting or providing materials for terrorist acts and surveillance of a vulnerable target for terrorist purposes.

Police found about 1,000 cellphones in the men's minivan. Authorities have not said what they believe the men intended to do with the phones, most of which were prepaid TracFones.

But the police chief in Caro, Mich., where they were arrested, said cellphones can be used as detonators, and prosecutors in a similar case in Ohio have said that TracFones are often used by terrorists because they are not traceable.

The arrests in Michigan came three days after two men were arrested in Marietta, Ohio, where police said they aroused suspicions when they acknowledged buying about 600 phones in recent months at stores in southeast Ohio.

Odeh said the men arrested in the Michigan case were buying the phones to sell to a man in Dallas for a profit of about $5 per phone. She said they were in Michigan because so many people in the Dallas area are doing the same thing that the phones are often sold out.

Odeh said she thought her husband and her relatives were targeted because of their Arab descent. The men's families hail from Jerusalem, she said.

The men were stopped early Friday about 80 miles north of Detroit after purchasing 80 cellphones from a Wal-Mart. Police said they found about 1,000 phones in their minivan. The men were arrested that afternoon.

No pleas were entered at the arraignment at a district court in Caro. A magistrate set bond at $750,000 apiece and the men were being held at the Tuscola County Jail, police said.

``All we did is buy the phones to sell and make money," Louai Othman told the magistrate. He said authorities had previously stopped the group in North Dakota, South Dakota, Minnesota, and Wisconsin.

Muhareb told the magistrate he was selling the phones to earn money to help pay for his brother's college education.

Tuscola County prosecutor Mark E. Reene told the Saginaw News in Michigan that investigators believe the men were targeting the Mackinac Bridge, which connects Michigan's Upper and Lower peninsulas. He declined to say what led investigators to that belief.

Reene and the FBI did not return phone messages.

Odeh said the family is working to get a lawyer for the men. ``I just want everyone to know that they're innocent and they shouldn't be locked up in jail without any evidence," she said.

A pretrial hearing has been set for Friday and a preliminary exam for Aug. 24.

In the Ohio case, Ali Houssaiky and Osama Abulhassan, both 20 and from the Detroit suburb of Dearborn, have been charged with two felonies -- money laundering in support of terrorism and soliciting or providing support for acts of terrorism -- and misdemeanor falsification. A preliminary hearing on the felony counts was set for tomorrow.

Defense lawyers said Houssaiky and Abulhassan planned to resell the phones to make money. They say the men were targeted because they are of Arab descent.

 

[AcrobatMan]

whatever ..i dont care

 

[BVS]

The behavior while worth investigating wasn't worthy of arrest.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

whatever ..i dont care

Uh, ok. I don't know why you'd reply if you don't care

I had to fly two months after 9/11. There was a man in line directly behind me, he appeared to me to be of Middle Eastern descent. He behaved in what I deemed to be a suspicious manner-he was eyeing people in line and seemed very nervous. Was he just a nervous flier? A marshal? Did I feel guilty for being suspicious of him? Honestly I did, a bit - not at the time (to be perfectly honest), but looking back on it, maybe. It was obviously a climate of great fear on planes and in general, two months after that day. Just being on that plane I watched everyone, and anyone doing anything remotely suspicious made me nervous. It still does. So did me being suspicious of that man make me racist? Was I profiling?

Do I automatically suspect people of a certain descent after 9/11? No, I don't think so and I would definitely be ashamed of myself if that was the case. I believe however that everyone is capable of racism, that we are all prejudiced in some way (s). Do I observe behavior and the behavior makes me nervous? Yes. After the London subway bombings and the climate that existed in the US because of that, a white man made me nervous on a commuter rail train because of the way he was turning around to watch people and looking at a bag that was on the luggage rack.

I would assume sufficient evidence would have to exist for an arrest in this case, either that or they are manufacturing it or making a warrantless arrest. I guess we will have to wait and see what happens.

 

[Pearl]

The fact they had bought 1,000 cell phones is suspicious, and if they were going to sell them for profit, was there a way for them to prove it?
It could be racial profiling, but the cellphones raised an alarm

 

[ntalwar]

I still don't understand why 1000 cell phones is more suspicious than 2, 5, or 10.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Well perhaps anything like cell phones or fertilizer, etc. in mass quantities is deemed suspicious.

My main question would be- is everyone who is buying cell phones in large quantities being investigated? Certainly people of all racial and ethnic groups must be doing this as a business. Like the article says, the fact that most were prepaid Trac Phones was also deemed suspicious.

How can they possibly arrest them under terrorism related charges without sufficient evidence? How did they get a warrant?

http://www.wnem.com/Global/story.asp?S=5277855&nav=menu97_2

There is growing speculation as to why the Might Mac was the alleged target of these three Palestinian-American men. Tuscola County Prosecutor Mark Reene couldn't go into specific detail about what exactly was found relating to the target.

One theory is that the men weren't targeting solely the bridge itself but the people on it. The Annual Labor Day Bridge Walk has drawn over 60,000 people in the past few years. In 2000 there was an estimated 65,000 people who participated in the Annual Bridge Walk.

The two east lanes of the bridge are used by walkers until 9:30am. To keep I-75 moving the two west lanes will be used for vehicles traveling north and south across the bridge. The National Guard is present in case of an emergency.

The van driven by the men contained about one-thousand TracFones. These cell phones are often used by drug dealers because they are cheap and virtually untraceable. They have also been used to detonate IED's or improvised explosive devices.

There are usually three types of IED's, package, vehicle borne, and the suicide bomb. Because these devices are "homemade" they can very in shape and form. They all share the same components: an initiation system, explosive, detonator, a power supply for the detonator, and a container.

It is speculation that the phones where to act as both the initiation system and detonator. Tim Nausler with the Michigan State Police bomb squad says this has all the tell tale signs of using cell phones to detonate bombs.

He says you need two phones to detonate a bomb one to be with the explosive and the other to make the call to that phone. In some instances he says you can detonate with one phone using the alarm clock function. The cell phones contain three of the five ingredients needed to build an IED.

The charges against these men are 20 year felonies. We have also learned the men will face no federal charges. Each of the men was arraigned on August 12th with bond set at $750,000 cash per suspect.

The men purchased the cell phones in Caro around 1:00am which would have given them just enough time to drive directly from the Wal-Mart in Gaylord to the store in Caro. The three men purchased cell phones from the Wal-Mart store on M-81 near the corner of M-24 in Caro early morning August 11th.

Wal-Mart places a limit on the number of cell phones that can be purchased at once, that number is three. The three men allegedly bought 80 by purchasing them three at time so that an alert wouldn't be triggered by the cash register. They also paid cash.

An alert clerk grew suspicious and called Tuscola County central dispatch. The Caro Police Department sent a unit and stopped the rented van on M-81 just east of Caro. The suspects were headed towards Bad Axe on M-81 where there is another Super Wal-Mart.

One man was driving while the other two were in the back opening the phone packages with box cutters throwing the phones in one box, batteries in another and the packaging and phone charger in another container. The suspects had 1000 other cell phones in the van.

The phones were Nokia TracFones selling for $20 at Wal-Mart. For your twenty dollars you receive a phone charger and 40 minutes of airtime. The phones do not have to be registered with a name. Also discovered was a laptop with store addresses and store logos.

 

[ntalwar]

Yes - I'm sure they were planning to place 900+ suspicious packages on the bridge, out of sight of everyone.

 

[Liesje]

If you only need one cell phone as a detonator, why look suspicious and buy 1000?

So even if 1000 is considered "suspicious", I don't get why they were arrested and jailed, rather than taken into custody for questioning and then released. Ten bucks says if it happened to me and I said I was going to sell them on eBay I'd get yelled at for being "suspicious" and then released. I think their raced played a big part in the decision to detain them.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I think their race played a big part in the decision to detain them.

I think you're probably right, and you made other good points as well. I didn't say they were going to place 900 packages on the bridge, obviously not. I'd say the FBI saying this raises many questions about any alleged connection to any plot against the bridge.

(AP) The FBI said Monday it had no information to indicate that the three Texas men arrested with about 1,000 cell phones in their van had any connections to a known terrorist group.

Authorities had increased patrols on Michigan's 5-mile-long Mackinac Bridge after local prosecutors said investigators believed the men were targeting the bridge.

Local authorities didn't say what they believe the men intended to do with the phones, most of which were prepaid TracFones, but Caro's police chief noted that cell phones can be untraceable and used as detonators.

The FBI issued a news release Monday saying there is no imminent threat to the bridge linking Michigan's upper and lower peninsulas and that has no information indicating that the men have any direct link to a terrorist group.

Adham Abdelhamid Othman, 21, of Dallas, and Maruan Awad Muhareb, 18, and Louai Abdelhamied Othman, 23, both of Mesquite, Texas, were stopped by police Friday outside a Wal-Mart store in Caro, about 80 miles north of Detroit after employees became suspicious when they purchased about 80 cell phones.

Local prosecutors charged them with collecting or providing materials for terrorist acts and surveillance of a vulnerable target for terrorist purposes.

Tuscola County Prosecutor Mark E. Reene said Monday that representatives of his office and Caro police had met with Sunday with officials from the FBI, the Department of Homeland Security and the U.S. attorney's office. He said all the agencies were working together on the investigation. He didn't say what led officials to believe the bridge might be a target.

 

[ntalwar]

I'd say the FBI saying this raises many questions about any alleged connection to any plot against the bridge.

It was the local authorities, not the FBI, who came up with that theory.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

It was the local authorities, not the FBI, who came up with that theory.

Yes I understand that, I was saying that the FBI is contradicting the local authorities' theory.

I'd like to know how they were able to arrest those men.

 

[verte76]

Well, the 1,000 cell phones is suspicious, but did they commit a crime? I'm a little confused.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Article from cnn.com with more info

Apparently the pictures were used as some sort of evidence/reason for the allegations

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/08/14/mackinac.ap/index.html

"William Kowalski, assistant special agent in charge of the FBI's Detroit field office, said authorities believe concern about the bridge was connected to images of the Mackinac Bridge found on a digital camera belonging to the men.

Kowalski said there was nothing illegal about buying cell phones in bulk, but that profits from that kind of activity can be suspicious."

 

[verte76]

OK, the digital camera makes the whole thing more clear.

 

[deep]

OK, the digital camera makes the whole thing more clear.

wtf?


I went to NY/ Manhattan in 88

and took pictures of Brooklyn Bridge. WTC,
Grand Central Station, Empire State Building, it is what people do. take pictures of land marks.

If one goes to Paris they take pictures of the Eiffel tower. London, Big Ben and bridges. I have taken pictures of oil refineries at night, and the San Onofre Nuclear site.

I am glad I am not a Muslim between the ages of 17-40.

 

[Bono's shades]

This is stupid.

I know people who buy lots containing hundreds of CDs and other stuff on eBay so they can resell them. It's not that unusual. I can easily see someone doing the same thing with cell phones simply for resale.

I didn't even know you could set off a bomb with something like a cell phone until last week's foiled terrorist plot in London.

 

[redsox04]

There is probably more to the story. I have heard something about them recruiting various people to make cell phone purchases at Walmart --- perhaps one of them tipped this strange behavior to the police? There were also some reports the police discovered many of the cell phones disassembled, which makes the re-sale alibi questionable.

 

[melon]

BTW, it's since been reported that their original alibi was true, and that the police investigation has come up with nothing related to terrorism. They really are resellers of cell phones.

Melon

 

[deep]

yeah,
but aren't they Muslims?

 

[Angela Harlem]

I'd want to take someone in for some questions if they had 1000 mobiles on them and I was a cop. But I'd be wondering primarily if the phones were stolen.

Is it racial profiling to use anyone's description, or just Middle Eastern folk? It sounds like some think physical descriptors cannot be used anymore, at all, which is ridiculous, I reckon.

 

[A_Wanderer]

yeah,
but aren't they Muslims?

Yes and that should be what rang alarm bells, not that they are Arab.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Interesting article about profiling

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeralyn-merritt/uk-considers-racial-profi_b_27286.html

Why do we need terrorists to destroy the cornerstones of democracy with bombs when governments are willing to do it themselves out of fear? Isn't that a sign that the terrorists have won? First it was the U.S. with its Patriot Act and warrantless NSA surveillance program, and now it's Britain, which is considering a new racial profiling program aimed at Muslims based on behavior, ethnicity, and religion.

"The government is discussing with airport operators plans to introduce a screening system that allows security staff to focus on those passengers who pose the greatest risk. The passenger-profiling technique involves selecting people who are behaving suspiciously, have an unusual travel pattern or, most controversially, have a certain ethnic or religious background."


...The people-based program -- called Screening Passengers by Observation Technique, or SPOT -- began undergoing tests at Boston's Logan Airport after 9/11 and has expanded to about a dozen airports. Trained teams watch travelers in security lines and elsewhere. They look for obvious things like someone wearing a heavy coat on a hot day, but also for subtle signs like vocal timbre, gestures and tiny facial movements that indicate someone is trying to disguise an emotion.

The TSA says that, because the program is based on human behavior, not attributes, it isn't vulnerable to racial profiling. Critics worry it still could run afoul of civil rights. "Our concern is that giving TSA screeners this kind of responsibility and discretion can result in their making decisions not based on solid criteria but on impermissible characteristics such as race," says Gregory T. Nojeim, associate director of the American Civil Liberties Union's Washington legislative office.

 

[nbcrusader]

How many terrorists get on El Al flights, and what methods do they use?

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eat-the-press/2006/08/16/fox-news-airs-suggestion-_e_27366.html

Yesterday on Fox News' "Dayside," conservative radio host Mike Gallagher proposed that airports institute a "Muslims only" line for airport travelers during a segment Tuesday on racial profiling. Meta, that. From Newshounds, who "watch FOX so you don't have to":

"Dayside" co-host Juliet Huddy set up the debate by noting that all terrorists have been Muslim extremists, and Jerrick claimed that some people oppose racial profiling as "politically incorrect."

"It's not just a matter of political correctness, please," responded [constitutional lawyer Michael] Gross. "It's illegal, it's unconstitutional, unethical, immoral, it shouldn't be done. We do not in this country prejudge a person based upon their race, creed, color, country of national origin and it's wrong to do so and it addition it's not effective. It doesn't work. It actually perpetuates the problem. That is, it separates us."

Gallagher responded that Gross's statements were "absolutely absurd" and claimed that the Traffic Safety Administration is aggressively targeting uniformed members of the military. "Let's have a Muslim-only line," Gallagher said, as Gross started to talk.

Jerrick asked Gallagher to repeat what he said.

"It's time to have a Muslims check-point line in America's airports and have Muslims be scrutinized. You better believe it, it's time," Gallagher said, garnering tepid audience applause.

According to the Newshounds account, despite Gross' clarification above, the debate was framed as a "political correctness" issue rather than one of unconstitutionality.




I can't believe anyone in the audience applauded

 

[maycocksean]

Profiling won't work. Not unless you're going to get into it as heavily as El Al does. (And even then El Al has a lot less people to deal with on a regular basis than the thousands that fly in and out of multiple international airports all across our country).

If I were a terrorist, I'd die my hair blond, use colored contact lenses, and certainly not admitt to being Muslim so I had to join the "Muslim-Only" that Gallagher is suggesting.

The terrorists generally don't arrive with flowing robes, turbans, and wild beards, clutching the Koran in one hand and a bomb in the other.

Mohammed Atta looked pretty sharp and clean-cut in the security cam shots of him on Sept. 11.

 

[A_Wanderer]

His name was Mohammed wasn't it?

 

[A_Wanderer]

The civil rights lobbies are working from a passé play book. They are blind to the lethal nature of the new Salafist totalitarianism. They won't recognize that we are facing an irrationalist movement immune to compromise and dedicated to achieve its ends of controlling every aspect of daily life, every process of the mind, through indiscriminate mass slaughter. It is a culture obsessed with death, a culture that despises women, a culture devoted to mad hatreds not just of Americans and Jews everywhere, but of Muslims anywhere who embrace a less totalitarian, less radical, more humane view of Islam. These Muslims are to be murdered, and have been in their thousands, along with "the pigs of Jews, the monkeys of Christians" and all the "dirty infidels".

Nor is the repellent language of hate limited to recognized terrorist groups like al-Qaida, Hizbullah and Hamas. It is in the school textbooks in Palestine and in the schools of our "ally", Saudi Arabia. They promised to clean them up but a recent Washington Post investigation showed the books still tell the young they have a religious obligation to wage jihad against not only Christians and Jews but also Muslims who do not follow the xenophobic Wahabi doctrine. . . .

These are historic fault lines. The right tolerated fascism in the thirties, the left Soviet Communism in the fifties. Of course these two earlier totalitarian movements were different in nature and our response when it came was not always well judged - the tendency is to think first of the excesses of the right typified by the witch hunts of the odious McCarthy, but we should remember, too, that the Democratic party in the immediate postwar years of Henry Wallace would have abandoned Europe just as the left in the eighties would have left Europe at the mercy of the new Soviet missiles.

The apologists for the Islamo-fascists - an accurate term - leave millions around the world exposed to a less obvious but more insidious barbarism.

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/harold_evans/2006/08/harold_evans.html

 

[maycocksean]

His name was Mohammed wasn't it?

But wouldn't the next generation of terrorists travel using false documents with Western names? Or am I getting too movie-like here?

 

[Axver]

If I were a terrorist, I'd die my hair blond, use colored contact lenses, and certainly not admitt to being Muslim so I had to join the "Muslim-Only" that Gallagher is suggesting.

The terrorists generally don't arrive with flowing robes, turbans, and wild beards, clutching the Koran in one hand and a bomb in the other.

Precisely. A "Muslims only" line will just serve to single out and potentially punish all the honest, decent Muslims out there.

Any terrorist would just claim to be a Christian and breeze through any profiling.