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Old 08-18-2006, 01:05 PM   #31
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The terrorists generally don't arrive with flowing robes, turbans, and wild beards, clutching the Koran in one hand and a bomb in the other.
I don't think screening for race should be the sole factor but can't it be one of them? You are correct, it's doubtful that future terrorists will arrive in their "dress blues." But we do know that thus far, airline bombers have INDISPUTABLY been mostly young, single Muslim men with ties to Pakistan or Saudi Arabia. Not a stereotype but a statistical fact.

Wouldn't it be a dereliction of duty for law enforcement officials to disregard such information? Or do we waste effort, resources and everyone's time by pulling out of line children, grandparents and passengers with decades of airline usage?
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Old 08-18-2006, 02:31 PM   #32
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Originally posted by INDY500

Wouldn't it be a dereliction of duty for law enforcement officials to disregard such information? Or do we waste effort, resources and everyone's time by pulling out of line children, grandparents and passengers with decades of airline usage?
I think Man Coulter has proposed the same thing.
Isn't this unconstitutional?
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Old 08-19-2006, 12:01 AM   #33
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If I saw an Arab man on a plane who was acting somewhat fishy I'd naturallly kee an eye on him. It has nothng to do with racism etc.. It's pure logic that an Arab man is more likely to be a terrorist. I think most people who say they wouldn't be more weary of a Middle Eastern person on a plane is desperately trying to lie to himself or others.
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Old 08-19-2006, 12:05 AM   #34
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Old 08-19-2006, 12:39 AM   #35
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Originally posted by shart1780
If I saw an Arab man on a plane who was acting somewhat fishy I'd naturallly kee an eye on him. It has nothng to do with racism etc.. It's pure logic that an Arab man is more likely to be a terrorist. I think most people who say they wouldn't be more weary of a Middle Eastern person on a plane is desperately trying to lie to himself or others.
Your statement is disgusting, racist, and employs dangerous logic.

If you can't see that, let's change 'Arab' and 'Middle Eastern person' to 'black man' and change 'terrorist' to 'thief' and see what happens, eh?
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Old 08-19-2006, 03:39 AM   #36
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Your statement is disgusting, racist, and employs dangerous logic.

If you can't see that, let's change 'Arab' and 'Middle Eastern person' to 'black man' and change 'terrorist' to 'thief' and see what happens, eh?
Change it to Muslim, since converts are overrepresented in terrorist plots I think that makes the racism argument a little bit flawed.
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Old 08-19-2006, 04:41 AM   #37
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Change it to Muslim, since converts are overrepresented in terrorist plots I think that makes the racism argument a little bit flawed.
Then it's not racist, it's flat-out discriminatory and stupid.

The whole "Muslims are terrorists so let's profile them" argument just doesn't hold water. So few Muslims are terrorists that they are a statistically insignificant minority, so profiling Muslims is just a waste of time. And anyway, the "terrorists are Muslims" logic comes from a selective view of history. If you're from, say, Ireland, Muslims certainly aren't the first group you should be worried about when it comes to terrorism. And who launched the only terrorist attack to ever happen on New Zealand soil? The French government.
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Old 08-19-2006, 04:55 AM   #38
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So few Muslims are terrorists that they are a statistically insignificant minority,
Not when it comes to todays terrorist attacks, the foiled plots with the intent to kill large numbers of civilians comes from Muslim extremists and the unifying factor is their faith and generally age and sex. It is willfull ignorance to make a case against profiling on the basis of religion because you claim it will be ineffective. Race, now that is a innefective marker - it wouldn't get people like David Hicks, Jack Roche or Jack Thomas ~ all white, male and Muslim converts.

I think that airlines should be able to set security limits; if people are willing to fly on a pork and booze airline where the hostesses are topless and you have to tounge a member of the same sex before entry or if you are opposed to such a thing in principle fly on a different airline.

Not all terrorist attacks are the same and we should distinguish between organisations of a nationalist or religio-political nature. The Palestinian terrorists in the 60's and 70's were not part of the death cult of the suicide bomber and when they hijacked a plane they would not just murder everybody on board, they are a step removed from the likes of Hamas or "Al Qaeda".

We live in the now, not all Muslims are terrorists but a solid majority of terrorists are Muslims. Given restricted security resources they should be used in the most effective manner; I think that a straight out Muslims only line is not the way to go about it but factoring religion into security assessment should be considered.
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Old 08-19-2006, 05:35 AM   #39
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Not when it comes to todays terrorist attacks, the foiled plots with the intent to kill large numbers of civilians comes from Muslim extremists and the unifying factor is their faith and generally age and sex.
The part of my post you quoted referred not to the ratio of Muslim terrorists to non-Muslim terrorists, but the ratio of Muslims who are terrorists to Muslims who are not terrorists. How many hundreds of Muslims have undertaken terrorist attacks? How many millions of Muslims are in the world? Terrorists constitute a statistically insignificant minority of the total Muslim population, so any profiling of Muslims is going to be largely ineffective and will just identify the thousands of ordinary Muslims who haven't a damn clue how to make a bomb. I don't see how that constitutes wilfull ignorance at all.

Now, if religion is going to factor into security measures, whether it is "Muslim only" lines or just factored into assessments or anything in between, any terrorist worth their salt is going to not claim to be Muslim. You'd probably do a far better job finding terrorists if you tried to identify who's pretending to be a Christian. I'm sure any terrorist would be quite happy to exclaim "praise Jesus!" and eat a bit of pork served by a topless waitress if they got to send a thousand "infidels" to Allah ten minutes later.
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Old 08-19-2006, 06:25 AM   #40
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but the ratio of Muslims who are terrorists to Muslims who are not terrorists
Is much higher than the ratio of non-Muslim fliers to non-Muslim terrorists in countries like Australia. Perhaps the name Mohammed should be; since coincidently most every terrorist plot either carried out or foiled has involved at least one man named Mohammed.
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Old 08-19-2006, 06:32 AM   #41
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Ultimately I think that the concept of hijacking is moot, no passenger would allow it to happen post-September 11, the risk from portable explosive devices may one day be ameliorated by hi-tech scanners and chemical sniffers; I am much more at ease with those devices than bag checks or CCTV - especially on public transport.
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Old 08-19-2006, 10:07 AM   #42
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Change it to Muslim, since converts are overrepresented in terrorist plots I think that makes the racism argument a little bit flawed.
The flaw in this argument is that you can't identify a person religion by profiling. You don't recognize a person's faith by their appearance. Lying about religion is easy, and so far no one has challenged as too movie like that future terrorists might travel with forged travel documents and assumed, Anglicized names.

You know I'm not totally opposed to profiling, as politically incorrect as that may be. I think it makes sense for security to take a little more time with young men coming out of Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. But the ideas of demagogues like Gallagher are just fearmongering and ill-disguised racial/religious prejudice.
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Old 08-19-2006, 12:23 PM   #43
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Then it's not racist, it's flat-out discriminatory and stupid.

The whole "Muslims are terrorists so let's profile them" argument just doesn't hold water. So few Muslims are terrorists that they are a statistically insignificant minority, so profiling Muslims is just a waste of time. And anyway, the "terrorists are Muslims" logic comes from a selective view of history. If you're from, say, Ireland, Muslims certainly aren't the first group you should be worried about when it comes to terrorism. The French government.
Here's the difference.
1) SAVING lives (including Muslim lives) should be the goal of airline security, not sensitivity.
2) Ethnicity would be only one of many factors.
3) Screening would not be based on bigotry but on statistics, history and most of all COMMON SENSE. Statistics that may change over time but today tell us; not all Muslims are terrorists but all the terrorists are Muslim.

To use your example. If next week a plot to blowup jet airliners by Irish terrorists was uncovered--I'd hope we'd begin screening for red hair, freckles and an Irish brogue at our airports.
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Old 08-19-2006, 03:00 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by shart1780
If I saw an Arab man on a plane who was acting somewhat fishy I'd naturallly kee an eye on him. It has nothng to do with racism etc.. It's pure logic that an Arab man is more likely to be a terrorist. I think most people who say they wouldn't be more weary of a Middle Eastern person on a plane is desperately trying to lie to himself or others.
Would you keep an eye on a white person acting fishy on a plane?
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Old 08-19-2006, 03:06 PM   #45
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Originally posted by INDY500


Here's the difference.
1) SAVING lives (including Muslim lives) should be the goal of airline security, not sensitivity.
2) Ethnicity would be only one of many factors.
3) Screening would not be based on bigotry but on statistics, history and most of all COMMON SENSE. Statistics that may change over time but today tell us; not all Muslims are terrorists but all the terrorists are Muslim.

To use your example. If next week a plot to blowup jet airliners by Irish terrorists was uncovered--I'd hope we'd begin screening for red hair, freckles and an Irish brogue at our airports.
Exactly what does a Muslim look like?
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