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Old 12-24-2005, 01:52 AM   #106
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The society that showed a pregnant Maria the door so she had to give birth to Jesus in poverty in a barn - , that must be the same society where these qualities of brotherly love originated?

If you only had one source where you got these ideas written down, in Babylonian, Sumerian, Karthagan, Mesopotamian or Egypt or any other ancient culture.

No, however agnostic you are, and it´s left to each and everyone to believe or not - from a historical viewpoint it has to be admitted that Jesus nailed the principles of loving one another down first. After all, this is one of the reasons why he had such an impact on society.
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Old 12-24-2005, 03:31 AM   #107
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So we are now taking quite possibly fictional events as proof that is where these philosophy came from?

From the time of Ashoka the Great moral precepts similar to Christianity were formed, the Greco-Buddhist links could certainly allow such ideas to travel all around the known world, permeating into areas ultimately leading to the formation of breakaway religious sects and cults with charismatic leaders.

Christianity has had such an impact on society because the religion was a beneficiary of history, I do not think that sound ideas and peaceful propagation were what has kept it in existence.
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Old 12-24-2005, 06:10 AM   #108
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Sure, after his conversion to Buddhism, Ashoka was a great leader. However, he was an Emperor. Jesus was not - he was a poor man who barely had clothes. Also, Ashoka developed certain moral values, like promotion of vegetarianism (what an interesting link to your PETA-hate), but neither him nor Buddhism were or are centered around helping the poor or sharing everything you have. Buddhism has a totally different ethical concept, and a very valuable one - ie. don´t hurt the worm because he could be your reincarnation - but I am specifically talking about the story, life, teachings of Jesus - which goes a little further than good governance of an Emperor, needless to say for anyone who ever read the Sermon on the Mount.

Short-sighted you are, young Jedi.
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Old 12-24-2005, 07:08 AM   #109
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I strongly dislike PETA because of their tactics and ambiguous attitudes towards terrorism. Thats different than saying vegetarianism or humane animal treatment is wrong.

It is like the difference between a group like Muhammadiyah in Indonesia and the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, it is a matter of degree.
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Old 12-24-2005, 07:53 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars
Sure, after his conversion to Buddhism, Ashoka was a great leader. However, he was an Emperor. Jesus was not - he was a poor man who barely had clothes.
He also happened to be the son of god, right?


Not that that really accounts for much.....
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Old 12-24-2005, 08:07 AM   #111
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It doesn't in the world as it is, historical Jesus would very likely not be the son of God.
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Old 12-24-2005, 08:28 AM   #112
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I know.


Alright, since I'm too tired to write a more coherent response, I'll just bow out now. I'll get more "in the game' when I come to, but I think, at the very least, I need some nappy time.
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Old 12-25-2005, 05:04 AM   #113
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I strongly dislike PETA because of their tactics and ambiguous attitudes towards terrorism. Thats different than saying vegetarianism or humane animal treatment is wrong.
I don´t know how you got the idea that I was a fan of their tactics. Actually, 10 yrs ago I donated to a similar organisation, but quit that because of their extreme lobbying.
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Old 12-27-2005, 03:38 AM   #114
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Civilizations had risen and fell for thousands of years before the ideas attributed to a figure called Jesus ever came into being, the philosophies may be good ways to live by but is it so difficult to think that they are an invention of mankind. Perhaps the concept of having some impossible God as the source of good in humanity makes those that don't know or believe that particular truth that little bit less human

Yeah... I agree with that...

As I was talking about in another thread, the sunday dispatch, I still think that Chritianity can be a good lens to look through, but it has to be adjusted in orter to teach properly. It's more important as to how it is taught and the meaning behind it than what is said and who said it, I believe. Jesus' life wasn't exactly documented with the utmost sense of realism and factuality, from my limited understanding.

But I don't really think that matters, as long as the message is right.



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i think that children have a very natural faith, not dependent on adult-oriented thoughts about faith.
........ children are gullible and ignorant. SOme people think that is blissful, I do not. I just felt like stating my opinion about that, for now.





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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Or maybe spiritual and religious qualities are a reflection of human qualities, human qualities that are a product of human society and biology.


I think every human, everywhere, is a reflection, or facet at least, of what a human "is" or perhaps "could be". Humans are a reflection of humanity, of what it means to be human.


(really interesting thread.... I want to start if from the beginning but I don't have time to night, again.... I'll subscribe to it and try to make time tomorrow for it.)
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