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Old 01-03-2008, 03:52 PM   #16
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Re: Re: questions for canadians... perhaps brits too.

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Originally posted by financeguy


What you conveniently forget is that this cuts both ways.

If you love the British Monarch so much, perhaps it is you yourself that should consider relocating to Britain, where I'm sure that she and her Greek husband will welcome your forelock-tugging, bowing and scraping.
The position, job, a major part of the Executive of Canada and Parliament of Canada, as set out in the Constitution of Canada, the Sovereign, is not British. It is Canadian 100%. The Queen is not a citizen of any country, but by blood her background is of many.
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Old 01-03-2008, 03:58 PM   #17
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Re: Re: Re: questions for canadians... perhaps brits too.

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but by blood her background is of many.
Primarily German, I believe.
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Old 01-03-2008, 04:00 PM   #18
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but most importantly... DIVINELY introduced into this world.

seriously though, when did monarchs around europe stop believing that to be the case?
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Old 01-03-2008, 04:03 PM   #19
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Originally posted by Zoomerang96
but most importantly... DIVINELY introduced into this world.

seriously though, when did monarchs around europe stop believing that to be the case?
Prince Philip is worshipped as a God in Tana. To be fair to him he seems to have dealt quite tactfully with these people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Philip_movement
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Old 01-03-2008, 04:11 PM   #20
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Re: Re: Re: Re: questions for canadians... perhaps brits too.

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Primarily German, I believe.
They can keep her.
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Old 01-03-2008, 04:14 PM   #21
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Originally posted by Zoomerang96
but most importantly... DIVINELY introduced into this world.

seriously though, when did monarchs around europe stop believing that to be the case?
In "Germany" in 1077 after the walk to Canossa, of sorts.
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Old 01-03-2008, 04:16 PM   #22
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To make an oath to just the country of Canada doesn't make any sense
As an American, I'm entirely indifferent to the specifics of how your Oath of Citizenship is worded. But I don't understand why (hypothetically) amending the procedure so as to swear allegiance to the country itself would inherently "not make any sense." When a new US citizen takes our Oath of Allegiance, that is precisely what s/he swears allegiance to--"the Constitution and laws of the United States of America." Not the person of the President or any other individual. Why would that be nonsensical?
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Old 01-03-2008, 04:18 PM   #23
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As a brit i feel nothing for canada, so if they decided to go their seperate ways it could not bother me however Auz is an entierely seperate issue.
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Old 01-03-2008, 04:33 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland

As an American, I'm entirely indifferent to the specifics of how your Oath of Citizenship is worded. But I don't understand why (hypothetically) amending the procedure so as to swear allegiance to the country itself would inherently "not make any sense." When a new US citizen takes our Oath of Allegiance, that is precisely what s/he swears allegiance to--"the Constitution and laws of the United States of America." Not the person of the President or any other individual. Why would that be nonsensical?

Thank you for expressing that better than I could have.

I do not feel that British Monarchy encompasses all that Canada is, and I don't feel that they are inherently the same when it comes to a Canadian Identity. While the Monarchy and Canada's ties to it are an integral part of a Canadian Identity, it is by no means the only thing that contributes to it.

I would love nothing better than to be able to swear allegiance to the Nation of Canada, and that I would observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen while taking my Oath of Citizenship.

I have no desire to swear allegiance to a guardian of this nation, however, by swearing allegiance to Canada as a Nation it would encompass many things, including the relationship with the monarchy.

It might be an Oath of Citizenship, however it would require me to swear allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors.

In my time here, I have fallen in love with so much more about this country than the Colonial influence on military, law, courts and government.



Oath - I swear (or affirm) that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen.
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Old 01-03-2008, 04:40 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by vaz02
As a brit i feel nothing for canada, so if they decided to go their seperate ways it could not bother me however Auz is an entierely seperate issue.
No love for Canada eh?
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Old 01-03-2008, 04:54 PM   #26
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why OZ and not canada, vaz? just curious...
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Old 01-03-2008, 04:58 PM   #27
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if it was up to me, we'd have kept the red ensign. funny... it hasn't kept australia or new zealand from having their own culture or identity.
There's barking here every now and then for a change in the flag. I absolutely agree that your history is your history, it's vitally important and you shouldn't ever deny it or try to change it. I'm all for keeping the flag the way it is and recognising our 'British Empire' past in many, many other more meaningful ways, however:

a) Nations grow and evolve and I can't think of any good reason other than "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" as to why Australia couldn't/shouldn't have an Australian head of state, something I most certainly look forward to and expect to see in my lifetime (it very nearly happened almost 10yrs ago, but was pretty much sabotaged by our very conservative and very staunch monarchist prime minister of the time), and,

b) I think the idea of a monarchy is just utterly ridiculous in the 21st Century in any real terms. A strong historical link, yes. A mascot, yes. A tourist attraction worth billions a year, sure. None of those three though mean a thing when you are talking about the historical links between Australia and the UK. The link certainly isn't with the monarchy - something which I don't think anyone here under 50 has any identification with at all - and that constitutional link does not need to be maintained for the historical and symbolic links to remain.

But there's no need to rush or do it just for the sake of it, and most certainly no need to try and wipe what is a (the) key part of our history and culture aside. If the country naturally evolves that way, it makes perfect sense.
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Old 01-03-2008, 06:04 PM   #28
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There's barking here every now and then for a change in the flag.
It seems to me that Australia's in absolutely no hurry to change its flag at least in part because of how it is Australianised, with the seven-point star in the bottom left, and the fact that besides the Aboriginal flag, there is no real alternative (and the Aboriginal flag seems just as divisive as having the Union Jack in the top left corner). However, I expect New Zealand to change its flag in my lifetime. Two reasons. Firstly, to avoid confusion with Australia - we've come a long way from possibly being involved in Federation. Secondly and more importantly, I think most Kiwis, especially younger ones like myself, identify much more with the silver fern flag. It is actually symbolic of New Zealand, whereas a bland flag with the Southern Cross and Union Jack doesn't do much for us. That's why I think it's important Australia has the seven-point star; there is no equivalent on the Kiwi flag, and I'm sure if there were a silver fern on it, the impetus to change would not be as considerable. Personally, if I had a flagpole, I would fly the silver fern without any hesitation. While our current flag may be representative of some of our post-colonisation history, I feel that the silver fern flag unites our entire history. Plus it looks damn good.

Which, getting back to the topic, makes me wonder how things work in Canada. To me, the current flag is very symbolic of the place. It makes me think of Canada in its entirety, not just the English or French or First Nations. I remember when I first saw the old one and it didn't evoke anything like that. But that's the impression of someone from the other end of the world who's never been closer to Canada than visiting Boston, so I'm curious as to how Canadians relate to both flags.

As for the monarchy, the entire institution strikes me as outdated, and the sooner Australia, Canada, and New Zealand become republics, the better. That doesn't mean any heritage will or should be lost, just that the monarchy's historical relevance has ceased to translate to present or future relevance.
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Old 01-03-2008, 06:43 PM   #29
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Originally posted by Axver

I remember when I first saw the old one and it didn't evoke anything like that. But that's the impression of someone from the other end of the world who's never been closer to Canada than visiting Boston, so I'm curious as to how Canadians relate to both flags.
I think maybe this is a regional thing in Canada. I know people out in the Maritimes and Newfoundland see the Union Jack flying around a lot more than here. I can honestly say I've seen it maybe a handful of times in the 17 years I've lived in Ontario.

It's my view that most people really like the maple leaf. It's become a very recognizable symbol globally and although I know that there were lots of complaints when they first came up with the design (famously that the leaf is red so that means it's actually dead), but I would say it's probably nearly universally liked at this point?
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Old 01-03-2008, 07:22 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zoomerang96
why OZ and not canada, vaz? just curious...
Dunno really, i just feel no love for Canada. I assume its because Britain discovered and create oz from scrach.
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