Question of the Day: Homosexuality - Page 3 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-30-2005, 01:54 PM   #31
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,473
Local Time: 08:08 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
But isn't it a hinderance in a way? Personally, I would love to have children. How does a gay male have children of his own without having to resort to adoption? I mean it must be an obstacle or a "problem" at some to be a homosexual.


firstly, i think adoption is a wonderful thing, and while i understand the desire to have your "own" child -- and this surfaced recently when a lesbian friend of mine, who is legally married in Massachusetts, asked me if i would one day consider fathering her child ... lots to think about -- i don't understand the $10,000s of dollars that some straight spend in order to conceive naturally. when you think about it, how is this any more or less natural that being a homosexual? there are people who cannot conceive, are they unnatural?

anyway, should all the conditions in my life be right, i would very much consider adopting. i like kids, always have, and have a very powerful paternal instinct that being a super devoted uncle (i have a brother and sister) might not be enough.

you get to a good point, though -- what is a homosexual for? the best answer i can give is the following: to prove that there is more, much more, to human existence than reproduction.

here's a lovely quote that i've used before, but i'll repeat again:

"perhas it requires seeing one's life as the end of a biological chain, or seeing one's deepest emotions as the object of detestation that provides insight. but the seeds of homosexual wisdom are the seeds of human wisdom. they contain the truth that order is in fact a euphemism for disorder; that problems are often more sanely enjoyed than solved; that there is reason in mystery; that there is beauty in the wild flowers that grow randomly among our wheat."
__________________

__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 04-30-2005, 02:21 PM   #32
New Yorker
 
Lemon Grrrrrl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Hangin' out by the state line turning holy water into wine
Posts: 2,725
Local Time: 06:08 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon
That's what the natural animals do.
Cannibalism and killing others' offspring are also what natural animals do. Should those behaviors be accepted into society?

I suppose I'm not natural either - I'm happily married but my husband and I have chosen not to have children of our own. Should I be treated like a pariah as well? On the flip side of that, take someone who was born sterile and decides to use artificial insemination to have children - is that natural? Should those people be treated as pariahs?

I think society overthinks the golden rule a little too much. Just be excellent to each other and you'll be amazed to find out that being straight or gay really doesn't matter. As for gay marriage - well, crap, with a 50%+ divorce rate in the US among traditional marriages, you can't argue that the sanctity of marriage is threatened. We breeders are threatening the sanctity of marriage all by ourselves. I am completely in favor of gays getting married and being every bit as miserable as traditionally married couples.

Quote:
Originally posted by melon
People may not like it, but you are not the arbiter of nature. God is.
We most definitely like to think we are arbiters of nature - look at all the vaccines and medications we use to extend our lives. Look at the animals that are extinct or near extinction because we keep multiplying and taking their habitats away.


One of my favorite quotes about this subject was from an episode of "ER" - when Dr. Weaver's mother was berating her for her 'lifestyle choice', she responded, "Yes, I made a choice - the choice to not live a lie and deny who I am anymore!" It was a very honest moment about coming out.
__________________

__________________
Lemon Grrrrrl is offline  
Old 04-30-2005, 02:30 PM   #33
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 08:08 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Lemon Grrrrrl
Cannibalism and killing others' offspring are also what natural animals do. Should those behaviors be accepted into society?
Psst...I was being sarcastic and trying to prove a point on people throwing around the word "natural" as if they know what they're talking about.

Melon
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 04-30-2005, 02:58 PM   #34
genius of compression
Forum Moderator
 
neutral's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: forty miles from atlanta, this is nowhere
Posts: 13,030
Local Time: 09:08 PM
Re: Question of the Day: Homosexuality

I want to play too!
Quote:
Originally posted by Dalton


My question: do you believe it is possible for a person to believe that homosexuality is inherently wrong and not be a bigot?

No.
__________________

neutral @ interference.com
neutral is offline  
Old 04-30-2005, 03:20 PM   #35
BAW
The Flower
 
BAW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: The OC....!!!!
Posts: 11,094
Local Time: 05:08 PM
Re: Question of the Day: Homosexuality

Quote:
Originally posted by Dalton

My question: do you believe it is possible for a person to believe that homosexuality is inherently wrong and not be a bigot?

No.
__________________
BAW is offline  
Old 04-30-2005, 03:36 PM   #36
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
BrownEyedBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: San Pedro Sula, Honduras
Posts: 3,510
Local Time: 07:08 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon


Psst...I was being sarcastic and trying to prove a point on people throwing around the word "natural" as if they know what they're talking about.

Melon
I suppose I would be the "pople throwing around the word "natural" as if they know what they're talking about."

LOL



Anyway, what i was trying to explain in my other posts about how it could be a problem to be a homosexual is that my guess is that it is easier to be straight.

I wouldn't encourage a child of mine to become gay but I would definitely encourage him to be straight and if he/she is gay I would still loving and accepting but I would feel kind of bad for him in a way.

My question about having children is that there must be some joy to knowing that you fathered this creature and that within this baby your blood circulates. I'm willing to guess some gay male somewhere would want this and I was just wondering what he would do under that circumstance.

I feel I'm going around in circles but my main point is that it must be more difficult being gay than being straight.
__________________
BrownEyedBoy is offline  
Old 04-30-2005, 03:57 PM   #37
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 08:08 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
I wouldn't encourage a child of mine to become gay but I would definitely encourage him to be straight and if he/she is gay I would still loving and accepting but I would feel kind of bad for him in a way.
There's nothing to "encourage." It just is or it isn't. It's out of your control.

Melon
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 04-30-2005, 04:13 PM   #38
War Child
 
Do Miss America's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: In Ryan's Pocket
Posts: 738
Local Time: 07:08 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy


I feel I'm going around in circles but my main point is that it must be more difficult being gay than being straight.
Well it is, but not for the reasons you list, it's more difficult due to people with opinions like yourself.
__________________
Do Miss America is offline  
Old 04-30-2005, 04:49 PM   #39
Blue Crack Addict
 
Dalton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Little hand says it's time to rock and roll.
Posts: 15,147
Local Time: 09:08 PM
**Note** I can't stick around to follow this up (birthday party), but .....


I am someone who believes that homosexuality is wrong, but have many strong, healthy, loving, open relationships with my homosexual friends. We talk about it when it comes up. A lot of the time we don't talk about it. My wife and I babysit their children, etc, etc.


I am just curious why so many of you believe that it is not possible to disagree with one another in such a way that you can still love and respect the other person enough to let them make their own choices?

That's my two cents for the moment. Sorry I have to go. Also, sorry if this sounds flippant in any way, I realize that this is a very painful subject around which terrible, terrible things have been said and done. Thanks Melon and others for sharing your experience.

Later.
__________________
Dalton is offline  
Old 04-30-2005, 04:53 PM   #40
Blue Crack Addict
 
Dalton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Little hand says it's time to rock and roll.
Posts: 15,147
Local Time: 09:08 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon


There's nothing to "encourage." It just is or it isn't. It's out of your control.

Melon


See, but isn't that the crux of the conversation? We have not definitive proof that homosexuals are born that way (we have no definitive proof there is a God either.....), I have friends who are sure they were born gay. I have friends that have transitioned out of a gay lifestyle and don't believe people are born that way.



I think the world would be a much better place if both sides could respect one another and try to understand one another better ....


Seriously I am leaving now .... must. have. beer.....
__________________
Dalton is offline  
Old 04-30-2005, 04:56 PM   #41
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,473
Local Time: 08:08 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Dalton

I have friends who are sure they were born gay. I have friends that have transitioned out of a gay lifestyle and don't believe people are born that way.


how did they "transition" out?

were these men or women? was there religious influence (i.e., the "exodus ministry")?

details, details.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 04-30-2005, 04:58 PM   #42
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 08:08 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Dalton
See, but isn't that the crux of the conversation? We have not definitive proof that homosexuals are born that way (we have no definitive proof there is a God either.....), I have friends who are sure they were born gay. I have friends that have transitioned out of a gay lifestyle and don't believe people are born that way.
They're bisexual. The operative phrase is "gay lifestyle." In other words, they ignore their same-sex attractions in favor of opposite-sex attraction. Bisexuals have that luxury.

Trust me. I feel nothing for women at all, and I never have. I don't need hetero society to reinvent the wheel and "discover" something I already know.

Melon
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 04-30-2005, 05:01 PM   #43
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 05:08 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Dalton
**Note** I can't stick around to follow this up (birthday party), but .....


I am someone who believes that homosexuality is wrong, but have many strong, healthy, loving, open relationships with my homosexual friends. We talk about it when it comes up. A lot of the time we don't talk about it. My wife and I babysit their children, etc, etc.


I am just curious why so many of you believe that it is not possible to disagree with one another in such a way that you can still love and respect the other person enough to let them make their own choices?

That's my two cents for the moment. Sorry I have to go. Also, sorry if this sounds flippant in any way, I realize that this is a very painful subject around which terrible, terrible things have been said and done. Thanks Melon and others for sharing your experience.

Later.

You seem like a very decent person

Who does not intend any malice.


Let me ask a question.



If a person said to Jewish people their practices and belief systems are wrong
and their souls will not be redeemed.
Would you consider that to be bigoted?
__________________
deep is offline  
Old 04-30-2005, 05:11 PM   #44
BAW
The Flower
 
BAW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: The OC....!!!!
Posts: 11,094
Local Time: 05:08 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy



Anyway, what i was trying to explain in my other posts about how it could be a problem to be a homosexual is that my guess is that it is easier to be straight.


Which is why I have to ask people who believe being gay is a choice, "why would someone choose to be gay, knowing they will face discrimination and judgement for their entire lives?"

Quote:
I wouldn't encourage a child of mine to become gay but I would definitely encourage him to be straight and if he/she is gay I would still loving and accepting but I would feel kind of bad for him in a way.
You can't encourage someone to be straight any more than someone could encourage you to be gay.

Quote:
My question about having children is that there must be some joy to knowing that you fathered this creature and that within this baby your blood circulates. I'm willing to guess some gay male somewhere would want this and I was just wondering what he would do under that circumstance.
I would guess that he would do what straight people who can't have kids of their own do...adopt or use a surrogate. And if you were to ask anyone who has adopted a child, they would be quick to tell you that genetics having nothing to do with how much they love that child.


__________________
BAW is offline  
Old 04-30-2005, 05:16 PM   #45
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 02:08 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
how did they "transition" out?

were these men or women? was there religious influence (i.e., the "exodus ministry")?

details, details.
There's was a song in England called "Sing if you're glad to be gay" in the 1980's. Anyway I read the singer since decided he was not gay but bisexual and got married to a woman. There was no religious factor involved as far as I am aware. I mention this merely in passing, however I happen to think the majority of people are bi-sexual to some degree.
__________________

__________________
financeguy is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com