Question of the Day: Homosexuality - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-30-2005, 12:07 PM   #16
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 07:18 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Dalton
Wow. I can tell this is a personal/touchy subject for you (as it is for me). Let me ask it on this level then. Do you know anyone who believes that homosexuality is wrong who you still have a positive/respectful/loving relationship with (assuming you are gay)?
I disown anyone who disagrees. I literally refuse to talk to them. I won't wait for them to try and "disown" me. Thankfully, I have a habit of being very convincing.

Quote:
BTW - I'm native american. That has always been one of my favorite jokes. Everytime I go someplace I haven't been before, I tell people I discovered it - just like Columbus "discovered" the Americas.
Exactly. I'm not Native American, but it's downright silly how many things white society attempts to "discover" that's already been discovered by someone else. North America was discovered over 10,000 years ago.

Melon
__________________

__________________
melon is offline  
Old 04-30-2005, 12:11 PM   #17
Blue Crack Addict
 
Dalton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Little hand says it's time to rock and roll.
Posts: 15,147
Local Time: 08:18 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon


I disown anyone who disagrees. I literally refuse to talk to them. I won't wait for them to try and "disown" me. Thankfully, I have a habit of being very convincing.


Sarcasm or painful truth. I don't know you, so you will have to give me a hint.


Quote:
Exactly. I'm not Native American, but it's downright silly how many things white society attempts to "discover" that's already been discovered by someone else. North America was discovered over 10,000 years ago.

Melon

I discovered you today. That means, I can rename you. Its fun being an explorer.


Sorry - I gotta run. Starting a convo and then leaving while cards are on the table is not a good way to make friends. I apologize.
__________________

__________________
Dalton is offline  
Old 04-30-2005, 12:12 PM   #18
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 04:18 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
I think being a homosexual is an aberration. It is not right, it is not natural. We've discussed this before plenty of times.


and a 300 pound Swedish man
with a 95 pound Nigerian woman is not an abberation?

would you feel comfortable confronting them?
__________________
deep is offline  
Old 04-30-2005, 12:19 PM   #19
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 04:18 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Dalton




Seriously (if you are serious) why would my comment be bigoted. No one would argue that you are born "black" or born a Jew. There is well founded debate as to whether or not one is born homosexual..
it is easier for some to leave their "Jewish"
background - (not that I thing they should have to)
than it would be for someone to leave their sexuality



no offense

but where is the empathy?
(not only directed at you, but all who make flip remarks
because it is not their personal situation)
__________________
deep is offline  
Old 04-30-2005, 12:22 PM   #20
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 07:18 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Dalton
Sarcasm or painful truth. I don't know you, so you will have to give me a hint.
Everyone I know is accepting, thanks to my power of persuasion. I've never had to test this theory, but, chances are, I wouldn't have a good relationship with anyone that bigoted. It would be equivalent to an interracial marriage, where one side's parents strongly objected. Chances are, you wouldn't have a close relationship with them, as a result.

Melon
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 04-30-2005, 12:23 PM   #21
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
BrownEyedBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: San Pedro Sula, Honduras
Posts: 3,510
Local Time: 06:18 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by deep


and a 300 pound Swedish man
with a 95 pound Nigerian woman is not an abberation?

would you feel comfortable confronting them?
See, men and women were created to complement each other. That is natural. Why is it that the way to reproduce sexually is through heterosexual relations?

Even the term "straight" implies that being heterosexual is "normal" and the only variant would be homosexuality. With that in mind I don't see how you feel offended by the term "aberration" if it only implies a "straying from the norm".
__________________
BrownEyedBoy is offline  
Old 04-30-2005, 12:31 PM   #22
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 07:18 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by deep
no offense

but where is the empathy?
(not only directed at you, but all who make flip remarks
because it is not their personal situation)
"Most psychologists and researchers believe empathy is an acquired trait which you begin to learn at a young age until late adolescence."

Hmm...I think most children and adolescents are selfish little shits, so that's probably why "empathy" is in such short supply, especially if empathy generally cannot be learned past that stage.

But really...it makes sense. I think a lot of charity in this nation is really disguised self-righteousness. While I hate Ayn Rand's influence on capitalism, I think that some of her blunt characterizations of human nature are right on the mark. People are charitable not because it helps other people, but because it makes themselves feel better. In other words, it's so you can attain that "feeling," rather than actually helping anyone. A lot of charity these days is built around that principle, with plenty of opportunities for donors to have name recognition (names on buildings, sponsor recognition, etc.) in exchange for their donations.

Or in the case of those who fight to end diseases. How often do you hear of a celebrity taking on the cause of a disease that neither they or any of their friends or family members have? Christopher Reeve pushed for stem-cell research, so he could cure himself. Michael J. Fox wants Parkinson's Disease cured for himself. Again, it's about "me" not "them."

I think there's very little true empathy left in this world.

Melon
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 04-30-2005, 12:32 PM   #23
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 04:18 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy



Even the term "straight" implies that being heterosexual is "normal" and the only variant would be homosexuality. With that in mind I don't see how you feel offended by the term "aberration" if it only implies a "straying from the norm".
and when "Europeans" came to "Honduras" your people were called "Savages"
__________________
deep is offline  
Old 04-30-2005, 12:34 PM   #24
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 07:18 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
See, men and women were created to complement each other. That is natural. Why is it that the way to reproduce sexually is through heterosexual relations?

Even the term "straight" implies that being heterosexual is "normal" and the only variant would be homosexuality. With that in mind I don't see how you feel offended by the term "aberration" if it only implies a "straying from the norm".
Do not confuse "natural" with "normal," because they are two vastly different concepts. "Nature" has wide genetic variance, even if it is uncommon. Homosexuality is "natural." Period.

"Normal," in the literal sense, means most common. In that sense, homosexuality is not "normal," because it occurs in approximately 10% of the population. But left-handedness is not "normal," because most people are right-handed. Being male and less than six feet tall is not "normal," because the average height is 6'. Being an albino is not "normal," because most people have full pigmentation. However, all of the above, including homosexuality, are part of nature. People may not like it, but you are not the arbiter of nature. God is.

Melon
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 04-30-2005, 12:37 PM   #25
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
dandy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: styrofoam peanut commune
Posts: 4,310
Local Time: 09:18 AM
i'm not fond of labels so i'm going to skip the 'bigot' part of the question.

irvine argued eloquently in another thread that the belief that homosexuality is wrong directly contributes to the climate of hositility and discrimation against the gay community. a person doesn't have to be actively campaigning against gay rights to passively buy into anti-gay sentiment.

gay rights are human rights, period. either you're part of the solution, or you're part of the problem.
__________________
dandy is offline  
Old 04-30-2005, 12:43 PM   #26
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
BrownEyedBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: San Pedro Sula, Honduras
Posts: 3,510
Local Time: 06:18 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon


Do not confuse "natural" with "normal," because they are two vastly different concepts. "Nature" has wide genetic variance, even if it is uncommon. Homosexuality is "natural." Period.

"Normal," in the literal sense, means most common. In that sense, homosexuality is not "normal," because it occurs in approximately 10% of the population. But left-handedness is not "normal," because most people are right-handed. Being male and less than six feet tall is not "normal," because the average height is 6'. Being an albino is not "normal," because most people have full pigmentation. However, all of the above, including homosexuality, are part of nature. People may not like it, but you are not the arbiter of nature. God is.

Melon
I understand the concept of homosexuality a little bit better with your analogies of being left-handed or an albino, so thanks.

But isn't it a hinderance in a way? Personally, I would love to have children. How does a gay male have children of his own without having to resort to adoption? I mean it must be an obstacle or a "problem" at some to be a homosexual.

I have nothing against homosexual people, personally. But still, I can't help but think that there are many issues they must face because of this "special" condition.
__________________
BrownEyedBoy is offline  
Old 04-30-2005, 12:58 PM   #27
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 07:18 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
But isn't it a hinderance in a way? Personally, I would love to have children. How does a gay male have children of his own without having to resort to adoption? I mean it must be an obstacle or a "problem" at some to be a homosexual.
Honestly, it doesn't bother them. It doesn't bother me. The irony is that it seems to bother the heterosexuals looking in on it the most!

I'm unsure if I want children at all, but I don't see "adoption" as defective or lesser. Apparently, that must be why gay couples are used very often as "foster parents" and have been for years.

The only issues we face are those imposed on us by straight society, which is seemingly incapable of accepting anything different from themselves. But, as I see it, that's not our problem; that's your problem to take care of.

Melon
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 04-30-2005, 01:19 PM   #28
War Child
 
Do Miss America's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: In Ryan's Pocket
Posts: 738
Local Time: 06:18 AM
To answer the original question NO.
__________________
Do Miss America is offline  
Old 04-30-2005, 01:30 PM   #29
She's the One
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,338
Local Time: 04:18 AM
^ What she said.
__________________
martha is offline  
Old 04-30-2005, 01:41 PM   #30
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,499
Local Time: 07:18 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy


See, men and women were created to complement each other. That is natural. Why is it that the way to reproduce sexually is through heterosexual relations?

Even the term "straight" implies that being heterosexual is "normal" and the only variant would be homosexuality. With that in mind I don't see how you feel offended by the term "aberration" if it only implies a "straying from the norm".

in one sense, you are 100% right. homosexuality is abnormal. so is being left-handed. so is having red hair. the point is that homosexuality is a 100% naturally occurring abnormality. there is no reason why people are gay, they just are. it stands at a complex interaction of genetics and environment, probably much more to do with genetics, and is 100% involuntary and unchosen.

the issue i would take with you is in your earlier post is that you said it wasn't "natural." clearly, as any gay person will tell you, their attraction to a member of the same sex is every bit as natural to them as is your attraction to the opposite gender. it's pretty much the same thing, and what gets me angry is when people reduce the attraction to simply fucking. we all like to fuck, hetero and homo, but it's also about emotional attraction and relating.

the second thing you said was that it wasn't "right." that's a huge value judgement, and i don't see how that's a defensible thing to say.

as for the original question, it is possible for someone not to be a bigot. they have a bigoted belief, but they might not be hateful. what they are is naive. and this is why it should be every gay person's job to be out and to demonsrate the naturallness and normality of how their orientation plays in their lives.

i truly do think most homophobia is rooted in either religious bigotry, repressed homosexual longings, or simple lack of sophistocation.
__________________

__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com