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Old 05-12-2006, 04:18 AM   #1
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Question about the Mel Gibson movie The Passion

I've seen it this Easter on TV, and three things confused me:

- when Judas hangs himself, what is the meaning of the goat?
- what is the meaning of the baby in the devil's arms?
- in the start, why is the devil asking "Who is your father?" didn't "she" know?
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Old 05-12-2006, 09:14 AM   #2
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Never totally understood the goat reference.

The baby in Satan's arms is almost like a taunt, seeing as Mary is helplessly watching her Son die, the devil is holding his own "son" and safely in his arms.

Satan is trying to confuse Jesus by questioning who His Father is, since Jesus is praying, calling out 2 "Abba", an Aramaic word for "daddy." It's always surprised people how Jesus referred to His Father in such an intimate and personal way, not calling him Father, but Daddy.
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Old 05-13-2006, 12:38 AM   #3
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IMO one of the worse movies ever...
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Old 05-13-2006, 12:55 AM   #4
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I did not want to voice an opinion without watching the movie
but when I tried I had to walk out

I have it TIVOed now
and have been taking it in small doses
it is a terrible movie


does more harm than DiVinci code


oh, what do those things mean?

just a load of crap for gullible people
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Old 05-13-2006, 01:01 AM   #5
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I still haven't seen it...probably will eventually one day, but am in no rush.
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Old 05-13-2006, 11:15 AM   #6
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So, no one was going to try to answer the questions? I guess being confronted with what Jesus did for all of us can make some uncomfortable.

1. The goat is a likely a reference to Matthew 25, when Jesus will separate the "sheep from the goats" or the believers from the unbelievers.

2. The baby in the Devil's arms could be a reference to Genesis 3:15 - the first prophetic statement of the work of Jesus, which speaks of emnity between the offspring.

3. Yes, the Devil full well knows who Jesus is and His Father. Satan has used such questions as a way to raise doubt.
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Old 05-13-2006, 11:58 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
I guess being confronted with what Jesus did for all of us can make some uncomfortable.

I think this is the part that scares me most, that people watch this movie and take it as fact. This is one man's interpretation. It's been broken down time and time again in here and everywhere else. It's an exaggerated bloodfest that avoids the reality of what Jesus really did for us.

Making a film about how Jesus hung out with the lepers and prostitutes, preached love thy neighbor, turn the other cheek, forgiveness, etc...

This is what would truly make people uncomfortable, we can take the blood, just don't show us these teachings that go againgst our desire of revenge and bloodlust.
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Old 05-13-2006, 12:17 PM   #8
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Complete waste of time (for me), however the superfluous amount of violence and 'pain' that Jesus supposedly went through would have guilted millions of IDIOTS (don't know how else to put it) into believing in Jesus Christ and blindly following the creative yet effective contraption of Christianity.
However, I don't think any other method of storyline would have been as effective. People don't want to see come guy walk around all day curing flim flam and preaching pish posh. Shock and guilt really were the only effective tools to utilize to make such a sucessfull pile of crap.
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Old 05-13-2006, 12:31 PM   #9
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As a Christian, this is my main problem with the movie: it's so painful and bloody, by the end, you're just hoping that Christ will finally die and relieved when he does. Shortly after the movie came out, our Rev. gave a great sermon on the theological significance of Jesus' death. I hadn't really thought about it until I heard the sermon, but the movie downplays the death of Christ and mainly focuses on his suffering. They're both equally important theologically because in order for Christ to be fully human he had to die. By the end of the movie, it's like you let out a sigh of relief when he finally dies, instead of being impacted by the significance of the event.
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Old 05-13-2006, 12:33 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by AussieU2fanman
Complete waste of time (for me), however the superfluous amount of violence and 'pain' that Jesus supposedly went through would have guilted millions of IDIOTS (don't know how else to put it) into believing in Jesus Christ and blindly following the creative yet effective contraption of Christianity.
Christ was a Jew. He didn't follow Christianity, he IS Christianity.

If people convert simply based on this movie alone, I have to agree that they're idiots.
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Old 05-13-2006, 02:47 PM   #11
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i hate religion and the bible but this movie is art at its best. The camera tells the story , no words needed.

How wasnt the movie banned ? i was almost sick lol
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Old 05-13-2006, 04:27 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Disciple


Satan is trying to confuse Jesus by questioning who His Father is, since Jesus is praying, calling out 2 "Abba", an Aramaic word for "daddy." It's always surprised people how Jesus referred to His Father in such an intimate and personal way, not calling him Father, but Daddy.
"Who's your Daddy?" A Biblical catch-phrase?

I think Mel Gibson was trying to portray "cinematically" the spiritual pain and suffering of ALL sin. Past, present and future. Whether or not he succeeded depends on the viewer. It does have a happy ending however.
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Old 05-13-2006, 06:50 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
I think this is the part that scares me most, that people watch this movie and take it as fact. This is one man's interpretation. It's been broken down time and time again in here and everywhere else. It's an exaggerated bloodfest that avoids the reality of what Jesus really did for us.
What is there to "interpret"? 39 lashing and crucifixion, as done in the day, are very violent. Most of the challenges to this are along the lines of “he couldn’t have survived it”. I don't know how you interpret your way out of some basic facts.

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Making a film about how Jesus hung out with the lepers and prostitutes, preached love thy neighbor, turn the other cheek, forgiveness, etc...
A good, "up with people" Jesus film would be fine - but it underscores our desire for only happy time Jesus. It cheapens the very need for a Savior.
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Old 05-13-2006, 07:11 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


What is there to "interpret"? 39 lashing and crucifixion, as done in the day, are very violent. Most of the challenges to this are along the lines of “he couldn’t have survived it”. I don't know how you interpret your way out of some basic facts.
There is a lot to interpret. First of all many believe the number 40 in the Bible to mean "complete" or "necessary", such as 40 days and nights in the desert. The literal number of how many days, probably wasn't recorded, but he spent the time necessary. Many believe that 40 lashings to mean the necessary amount to kill a human, therefore 39 the amount just short of killing.

Also the crucifiction itself has many different interpretations as far as how the cross was constructed and erected.

Then there's also the length of the walk. There have been medical experts that have dissected the film and said there's no way a human would have even made it to the crucifiction, the way the movie portrays it, they would have died before even being erected.


Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader

A good, "up with people" Jesus film would be fine - but it underscores our desire for only happy time Jesus. It cheapens the very need for a Savior.
What? I see nothing happy about Jesus with Lepers. I think Jesus himself would find his life cheapened by spending a whole 2 hours focused on just him dying. Skipping most of his teachings and treating his reserection like an afterthought.
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Old 05-13-2006, 09:35 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
There is a lot to interpret. First of all many believe the number 40 in the Bible to mean "complete" or "necessary", such as 40 days and nights in the desert. The literal number of how many days, probably wasn't recorded, but he spent the time necessary. Many believe that 40 lashings to mean the necessary amount to kill a human, therefore 39 the amount just short of killing.

Also the crucifiction itself has many different interpretations as far as how the cross was constructed and erected.

Then there's also the length of the walk. There have been medical experts that have dissected the film and said there's no way a human would have even made it to the crucifiction, the way the movie portrays it, they would have died before even being erected.
I understand the conceptual roots of the 39 lashings, but it is also recorded in history in both the number of lashes and the methodology used by the Romans (in cases not involving Jesus).

Frankly, it is amusing to hear experts say "Jesus could not do this" (at this point, they are a dime a dozen) when He returns from the dead three days later. Talk about missing the forest for the trees. Also, the argument is not that the movie is inconsistent with Scripture - it has become what they want to believe is inconsistent with Scripture.

As for the precise style of crucifixion, you are correct that there are some possible variations (such as height of the cross off the ground, etc.). Again, I'm not sure there is a case that the method portrayed in the Passion is inconsistent with Scripture.

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
What? I see nothing happy about Jesus with Lepers. I think Jesus himself would find his life cheapened by spending a whole 2 hours focused on just him dying. Skipping most of his teachings and treating his reserection like an afterthought.
Jesus life is cheapened if we ignore the last two hours of His life. Given God's requirement for a blood sacrifice for the atonement of sin and Jesus' willingness to be that perfect sacrifice on our behalf, the whole point of Jesus' walk on earth is realized in that last two hours (specifically with his death as Lies has noted elsewhere) and His resurrection.

As for caring for lepers, why would we need a film with Jesus? We have lepers here today (I work with a ministry that cares for lepers in India). It is not like we will have another Savior dying for our sins.
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