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Old 05-13-2006, 09:50 PM   #16
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Are there passages in the Old or New Testament about passion plays and their neccessity or is this an invention of the church?

I'd like to be enlightened on what about this film was neccessary.
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Old 05-13-2006, 10:08 PM   #17
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Originally posted by U2DMfan
Are there passages in the Old or New Testament about passion plays and their neccessity or is this an invention of the church?

I'd like to be enlightened on what about this film was neccessary.
Passions plays (and the movie) are simply a telling of the story of Jesus. I'm not sure it is a "necessity" commanded by Scripture except we are told to be witness and spread the Good News.

Given that this movie stands out in the portrayal of this portion of Jesus' life because you don't hear it elsewhere may support the idea that it was "necessary".
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Old 05-14-2006, 12:27 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Passions plays (and the movie) are simply a telling of the story of Jesus. I'm not sure it is a "necessity" commanded by Scripture except we are told to be witness and spread the Good News.

Given that this movie stands out in the portrayal of this portion of Jesus' life because you don't hear it elsewhere may support the idea that it was "necessary".
I thought Passion plays were about the death of Christ.
The crucifixion and resurrection.

So because this particular film may be new to somebody, that could qualify it as necessary?

What a shame.
They would have missed out on all the important stuff.
Because all this passion play depicts is the death and resurrection. What is the real context? I don't think there is much.

What good is placing the value in the resurrection if you don't really know what it is for? Or what it stood for? So if you don't have that context how can this film ever be necessary? It teaches you nothing but the fact that Jesus was brutalized. That's just my opinion.
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Old 05-14-2006, 12:32 AM   #19
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On what basis are you determining "what is important"?


The film does cover death and resurrection; but as will all passion plays the focus is on the time leading up to the cross.
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Old 05-14-2006, 12:42 AM   #20
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On what basis are you determining "what is important"?
On what Jesus himself said.

Why does one need to know the gory details of his demise to reach salvation?
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Old 05-14-2006, 12:51 AM   #21
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why do i or anyone else for that matter need a savior?
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Old 05-14-2006, 03:46 AM   #22
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


Frankly, it is amusing to hear experts say "Jesus could not do this" (at this point, they are a dime a dozen) when He returns from the dead three days later. Talk about missing the forest for the trees.
Yes, but if we are to believe he is human, PHYSICALLY he wouldn't be able to survive.


Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader

As for the precise style of crucifixion, you are correct that there are some possible variations (such as height of the cross off the ground, etc.). Again, I'm not sure there is a case that the method portrayed in the Passion is inconsistent with Scripture.
There are also descriptions of crucifictions where the shaft of the cross is dropped in a hole and upon landing the jolt breaks a large amount of bones.


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Originally posted by nbcrusader

Jesus life is cheapened if we ignore the last two hours of His life. Given God's requirement for a blood sacrifice for the atonement of sin and Jesus' willingness to be that perfect sacrifice on our behalf, the whole point of Jesus' walk on earth is realized in that last two hours (specifically with his death as Lies has noted elsewhere) and His resurrection.

As for caring for lepers, why would we need a film with Jesus? We have lepers here today (I work with a ministry that cares for lepers in India). It is not like we will have another Savior dying for our sins.
I agree we shouldn't ignore the last two hours. But to focus just on those two hours and use it as a summation of why Christ was here, like many have done with this film cheapens his life.

And yes we do have lepers today, and I think if followers would be reminded of this they wouldn't have ignored epidimics such as the AIDS epidimic that had been ignored by the church for so long.
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Old 05-14-2006, 02:07 PM   #23
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Absolutely terrible film.
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Old 05-14-2006, 02:35 PM   #24
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Yes, but if we are to believe he is human, PHYSICALLY he wouldn't be able to survive.
The problems seems to be the disconnect between the individual and Scripture - not the disconnect between the movie and Scripture.
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Old 05-14-2006, 05:57 PM   #25
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i'm not terribly concerned with biblical accuracy as a means of evaluating the movie -- since it doesn't seem like Gibson is either. there seems to be little question that most of the violence in the film is designed not for accuracy's sake but for cinematic purposes, hence, my problem with the film is that it plays just like a horror movie -- just when you think it can't get worse, it does! blood! gore! how easy to manipulate our emotions! let's get our senses bombarded with more blood than all the Tarantino movies combined, let's watch the bad guys be bad, the Jews hiss, and the strikingly beautiful white boy suffer! the film operates on rather standard shock devices, much in the same way one of those horror movies like "saw" or whatever does.

Gibson does know how to bring in good box office, though, brilliant marketing -- the movie the jews don't want you to see.
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Old 05-15-2006, 01:35 PM   #26
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

Yes, but if we are to believe he is human, PHYSICALLY he wouldn't be able to survive.
Why not? Paul says that twice he received forty minus one.

Quote:

There are also descriptions of crucifictions where the shaft of the cross is dropped in a hole and upon landing the jolt breaks a large amount of bones.
And others where crucified people stayed alive for three days until their legs had to be broken so they would finally drop.

Quote:
I agree we shouldn't ignore the last two hours. But to focus just on those two hours and use it as a summation of why Christ was here, like many have done with this film cheapens his life.
"While we were yet in sin, Christ died for us." The point of Jesus' teaching was that God loves us -- the point of His death was to show us. A message of love is fairly useless without the demonstration of love, and one could argue that the kind of death Jesus suffered is the best demonstration.
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Old 05-15-2006, 01:57 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by nathan1977


Why not? Paul says that twice he received forty minus one.
We've established what scripture said, I'm talking about the movie.


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Originally posted by nathan1977

And others where crucified people stayed alive for three days until their legs had to be broken so they would finally drop.
Ok you're missing the point. The point was that the exact means to which the cross was erected and the crucifiction worked has never been agreed upon by theologians or historians.


Quote:
Originally posted by nathan1977


A message of love is fairly useless without the demonstration of love, and one could argue that the kind of death Jesus suffered is the best demonstration.
And a death without reason is simply a death. An empty sacrifice. Goes both ways.
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Old 05-15-2006, 02:09 PM   #28
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


We've established what scripture said, I'm talking about the movie.
The Apostle Paul says that he himself (i.e., Paul) twice received forty minus one. If he is to believed (his claims come from 2 Corinthians, which is among the books that all scholars, both liberal and conservative, attribute to him) than it is physically possible to endure the kind of suffering Jesus did.

Quote:
The point was that the exact means to which the cross was erected and the crucifiction worked has never been agreed upon by theologians or historians.
Saying that there are different ways it may have happened is very different from saying that it didn't happen a certain way.

Quote:

And a death without reason is simply a death. An empty sacrifice. Goes both ways.
Watch the flashback scenes again. Film is not primarily a didactic exercise.

If you're looking to understand more why Jesus sacrificed himself, He went into great detail in the Gospels.

The film was never intended to be a bio-pic of the life of Jesus. There are plenty of such films already out there, the most well-known of which, Jesus of Nazareth, is also readily available. (And excellent.)
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Old 05-15-2006, 02:11 PM   #29
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i liked how pissed Jesus looked at the end of the movie like after he rose from the dead an all.

i bet he's on a Mel Gibson-style revenge quest.

i'll bet this is one pissed-off mofo who's going to do unto others what has totally been done unto his ass.

or so the film seems to say.
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Old 05-15-2006, 02:28 PM   #30
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Originally posted by nathan1977


The Apostle Paul says that he himself (i.e., Paul) twice received forty minus one. If he is to believed (his claims come from 2 Corinthians, which is among the books that all scholars, both liberal and conservative, attribute to him) than it is physically possible to endure the kind of suffering Jesus did.
I'm very well aware of what the scripture says. But the scripture doesn't go into detail that the lashings came from whips with barbs in them, it doesn't go into detail the length of the walk, so on and so forth. Most of these are believed to be exagerations on Gibson's part.



Quote:
Originally posted by nathan1977


The film was never intended to be a bio-pic of the life of Jesus. There are plenty of such films already out there, the most well-known of which, Jesus of Nazareth, is also readily available. (And excellent.)
I understand the film wasn't meant to be a bio-pic. I just wish churches understood this. This film was praised as the ultimate Christian movie blah, blah, blah, and I find that incredibly disturbing.
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