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Old 07-09-2005, 07:07 PM   #1
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Question about the citizens in UK regarding the bombs in London

Sorry if I should have included this in the other thread but I am curious about something.

Are the people in the UK going to carry on about the remembering the victims of the bombings on Thursday like the US did after the attacks on Sept 11?

What I mean is, will there be yellow ribbon magnents, bumber stickers, national flags all over cars over there saying "We will never forget"?

I am just curious and I do not mean to offend anyone by this question.
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Old 07-09-2005, 08:50 PM   #2
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I can't really see us all driving around donning Union Jacks. I'm sure many people will, but i'm not certain about our wider-scale reaction yet... it's hard to predict.

I'm sure that July 7th will be a commemorative day from now on.

Another thing I'm absolutely certain of, is that the newspapers will launch huge campaigns, about safety, regulations, defence plans for the future, etc etc - and rightly so. That will lead to a huge focus on these issues, so I think we'll probably concentrate on sorting out the practical side more than anything - apart from those who were seriously traumatised, injured, or lost loved ones, of course.

On the negative side, the media will undoubtedly sensationalise it as they always do - it took our national newspapers less than a day. In the Friday morning editions, Thursday was already being referred to as 7/7. Is there any need? We all know what the damn date was, we don't need to turn it into a slogan to remember and grieve for our dead.

(I'm not suggesting that this is what happened in the US so please don't take that the wrong way.)

It's kind of hard to say, because the British public in general seems to have chanced so much over the last 10 or 15 years.

Example? I was totally amazed at the mass hysteria - not genuine grief, but hysteria - that followed Princess Diana's death. Of course, many people were extremely upset and, overall, we were horrified that those 2 children were left without their mother. It was a tragic loss of a woman who, whatever her faults may have been, did a lot of good to help others and she certainly brought some glamour, emotion and fun into the House of Windsor. Nonetheless - it seemed to me that a fair bit of the national weeping, wailing, and howling wasn't genuine.

I don't want to offend or upset anyone, I'll probably be chased out of here with an axe now, but that's how it was in my view - and the view of many others I've spoken to over the years.

The point being, it's just very hard to tell how any of this will pan out.

Hope that makes sense. It's 5am here and I am knackered.
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Old 07-09-2005, 08:54 PM   #3
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The phenomena is called Dianification ~ the elimination of all scale and perspective to make way for disproportionate bawling and blame shifting.
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Old 07-10-2005, 06:25 AM   #4
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That's a good question!

I don't personally think there will be an "official" commeroration day, or day of mourning. It just doesn't seem to be the way "we" do things over here. London itself has suffered many bomb attacks previously by the IRA, yet there's no official recognition on a national scale for those events.

I'm of the opinion that perhaps it's best to leave the mourning and any commeroration of such events, to the families and loved ones of those who were killed. Events as terrible as 9/11 and London's bombing on Thursday, will long remain in the public psyche anyway.

But I must stresss that it's not because I don't care, more that I think it must be terribly hard for those people to deal with their losses without it being brought up again in the media every year. It must be terrible for example, for those who lost family and friends on 9/11 to have to see those awful images again and again. I know that I, as a total outsider, have great difficulty in watching those planes hitting the towers. It still makes me very upset when I see that.

In a broader sense, I do think that extended media coverage of events such as these, could even be described as propaganda for those who commited the evil act. What better way for them to claim a victory, than for a country to declare a national day of mourning for the rest of time?
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Old 07-10-2005, 04:05 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by stevec


I'm of the opinion that perhaps it's best to leave the mourning and any commeroration of such events, to the families and loved ones of those who were killed. Events as terrible as 9/11 and London's bombing on Thursday, will long remain in the public psyche anyway.

But I must stresss that it's not because I don't care, more that I think it must be terribly hard for those people to deal with their losses without it being brought up again in the media every year. It must be terrible for example, for those who lost family and friends on 9/11 to have to see those awful images again and again. I know that I, as a total outsider, have great difficulty in watching those planes hitting the towers. It still makes me very upset when I see that.
Absolutely - well put.
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Old 07-10-2005, 04:49 PM   #6
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Yeah...I rather agree with you on that one, stevec .

Angela
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Old 07-11-2005, 11:08 AM   #7
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Thanks ladies.

I'm not a religious man in any sense, but I hope that God is with the victims' families at this time - whatever name they call him by. I also think they should be left at peace now, away from cameras and reporters.

On a brighter note tho, a colleague and friend of mine from our London office would have been on the bus, had she not been ill that day.

Maybe I should start believing in something again after all?
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Old 07-12-2005, 01:35 PM   #8
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Does "carry on about remembering" mean that Americans took it too far?
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Old 07-12-2005, 01:41 PM   #9
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scum bag politicians exploited it for power grab
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Old 07-12-2005, 01:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Does "carry on about remembering" mean that Americans took it too far?

Americans, no.

America, the political system and the media -- could we please have gotten through a ballgame without the obligatory 9-11 references? -- yes, absolutely.

tragedy sells. and scares.
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Old 07-12-2005, 01:50 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Does "carry on about remembering" mean that Americans took it too far?
I don't know about this. We're two different countries. Europeans in general are more familiar with terrorist attacks. I know we've had attacks in the past few years, but Buckingham Palace was bombed nine times during WWII. People in general agree that 9/11 shattered alot of, if not all of, our innocence that Europeans don't have because of their troubled histories. I hope I haven't offended anyone, this is certainly not my intention.
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Old 07-12-2005, 06:54 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Does "carry on about remembering" mean that Americans took it too far?
Like the others have said, do you mean the American people? Or the media?
Is there such a thing as taking it too far? Over 3000 murdered in such a violent and emotionally difficult to grasp way.
Is there any difference between US citizens and UK citizens? American folk, more known for showing emotion. UK folk, they got their stiff upper lip rep from somewhere.
Does it mean anything? Make any difference? Mean one cares more than the other? Mean one is doing it a better way than the other?

I doubt it. America reacted how it needed to. England will do the same. Neither will be wrong, neither is asking for criticism, which is not what you were doing, I know, nbc.
I wonder if it a slightly cultural thing? Americans like to band together and put some volume behind their strength in unity. British reserve wants to see people put their heads down, march forward. Resolute, and undefeated. I'm sure people will right this off as generalisation, which it of course partly is. It is partly an observation of subtle differences.
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Old 07-12-2005, 07:36 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem


Like the others have said, do you mean the American people? Or the media?
Is there such a thing as taking it too far? Over 3000 murdered in such a violent and emotionally difficult to grasp way.
Is there any difference between US citizens and UK citizens? American folk, more known for showing emotion. UK folk, they got their stiff upper lip rep from somewhere.
Does it mean anything? Make any difference? Mean one cares more than the other? Mean one is doing it a better way than the other?

I doubt it. America reacted how it needed to. England will do the same. Neither will be wrong, neither is asking for criticism, which is not what you were doing, I know, nbc.
I wonder if it a slightly cultural thing? Americans like to band together and put some volume behind their strength in unity. British reserve wants to see people put their heads down, march forward. Resolute, and undefeated. I'm sure people will right this off as generalisation, which it of course partly is. It is partly an observation of subtle differences.




great post.

i once heard that a difference between citizens of the US and the UK is that in the US, problems must be solved, and in the UK, problems are to be endured.

generalization? of course. but some sense on all generalizations.

and like all generalizations, totally simplistic and incomplete.

the wrong thing to do, i think, is to judge how anyone grieves.
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Old 07-13-2005, 03:00 AM   #14
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The big difference between us English and Americans is firstly we're veterans of terrorism and bomb attacks, and secondly, as stated above, we're a naturally more reserved bunch. Heads down, let's get on with it.

An American marine once told me (before 9-11) that (in his opinion) the biggest diffference between London and New York is that The Blitz didn't happen in NY. Americans were largely (according to him) alien to the concept of terrorism. Something highlighted to the number of 'Irish-Americans' who were symphathetic to the IRA cause (through opinion and pocket) throughout the 1970s and 1980s until the ceasefire. To see Gerry Adams be welcomed into the White House by Bill Clinton was something that horrified - and offended - many English people.

21,000 died in The Blitz alone. 3,000+ in the Ireland strugles. No terrorist attack is more important than another - they're all terrible - but in England, we've grown up with them. Sadly, we're almost used to them.

In terms of culture, we're far more reserved. Americans (don't take this the wrong way - I love the place and you guys, having been to nearly 20 different US cities for example) are far more patriotic, far more drip fed a notion that Amercia is great, the best at this and that, the 'land of the free, the home of the brave'. God Bless Amercia and America The Beautiful.

You guys are far more patriotic. We're not. To fly an English flag in England, you're almost accussed of being racist. The guys above are right about the hysteria surrounding Diana's death, it was indeed bizarre. But much of it was magnified by a guilty-riden English press who had made her life misery and didn't actually reflect what was being felt across England. It was a one off.

There is no right or wrong about grievance. Everyone deals with it differently. But apart from the odd minute's silence and maybe a plaque or two, English people will accept what happened and move on.
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Old 07-13-2005, 05:41 AM   #15
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That's a pretty good summary, I would say. Well put.
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