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Old 04-21-2005, 08:53 PM   #76
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I've been to both Catholic and Protestant churches and pretty much decided I wouldn't want to be Catholic...not that I have anything against that religion...it just doesn't appeal to me.

I don't see the point in confessing "my sins" to another human?? If I need to confess, I talk to God directly...besides what if that priest just molested an innocent alter boy??? Shouldn't he be the one confessing...to the cops????

Lastly...I really liked the late Pope John. His smile never left his face and he was this grandfatherly type man. This new Pope looks like a complete goofball......and so far, have not seen him smile....
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Old 04-21-2005, 09:08 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally posted by Se7en


do you honestly believe in the ideal of "free will?" i, for one, do not.
As the good little Calvinist that I am, I don't believe in free will either. I believe there IS a difference between one's "freedom" and "free will/freedom of the will".

I don't remember what Catholics believe about this.....does Catholicism acknowledge "free will"?
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Old 04-21-2005, 09:28 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally posted by Se7en


do you honestly believe in the ideal of "free will?" i, for one, do not. i don't see how it is possible for a human to make a completely objective decision about anything. the way you think, act, and talk..it's all influenced by SOMETHING. nothing of man is objective or beyond a sphere of influence.
We are all influenced by something, but that does not negate free will - the ability to make decisions.

I am influenced by God, but I have free will, and sadly, I disobey Him sometimes.
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Old 04-21-2005, 09:47 PM   #79
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Free will is the power to choose, we may be influenced in our choices but that does not mean that we cannot make them or that our decisions are somehow not ours.
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Old 04-21-2005, 09:58 PM   #80
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clearly everyone has the ability to make decisions. but are they "free" decisions? for instance, how real is someone's ability to forsake their lifelong religion to convert to the "right" one? obviously some people have done this, but clearly their surroundings and experiences play a huge role. someone perfectly happy with their life will not be able to freely change it. for example, i don't think you would ever be converted to another religion, because your experiences do not allow for it. i was able to change my religious perspective because of events in my life that triggered different emotions and viewpoints. had my conditions remained constant, i would probably still be a christian, but as it stands, i am not and i don't think there is anything i can consciously do about it.

from a marxian perspective, our consciousness is determined by our material condition, not vice versa.
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Old 04-22-2005, 04:20 AM   #81
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All of these (Thomism, Molinism , Augustinianism , Congruism) deal with the concept of grace and free will.....

If you enjoy the topic you may wish to read up on it.

Peace
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Old 04-22-2005, 06:01 AM   #82
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Re: Question About Christianity...

Quote:
Originally posted by namkcuR
Forgive my ignorance, but I'm looking for some insight about what the most major/fundemental differences between Protestants and Catholics is...anyone?
Protestants are more of a simple people Catholics focus on man made Traditions and customs instead of what was actually stated in the Bible. Catholics manipulated the religion and turned it into a business to please man visually, not spiritually like the Bible intended it to be. The Bible says nothing about Popes are Cardinals or any of the customs they follow, but it has become so influential that people are born or converted into it without actually knowing the fundamentals or questioning there credentials. Protestants, in a nut shell, just keeps it real and humble.
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Old 04-22-2005, 06:15 AM   #83
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Re: Re: Question About Christianity...

Quote:
Originally posted by Volly


Protestants are more of a simple people Catholics focus on man made Traditions and customs instead of what was actually stated in the Bible. Catholics manipulated the religion and turned it into a business to please man visually, not spiritually like the Bible intended it to be. The Bible says nothing about Popes are Cardinals or any of the customs they follow, but it has become so influential that people are born or converted into it without actually knowing the fundamentals or questioning there credentials. Protestants, in a nut shell, just keeps it real and humble.
Where are my boots?

This is the kind of post that makes me want to puke! Please do not let the door hit you on the way out.
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Old 04-22-2005, 06:19 AM   #84
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Volly, please careful of the generalizations you make in FYM. The majority of Catholics, keep in mind, are now in the Third World and are much poorer than most of us with the privileges of Internet access and computers. Somewhere I read that the average Catholic today is a woman of color living on less than 2 dollars a day.

Additionally, there are quite a few Catholics who post here who take their faith and spirituality quite seriously.

Thanks.
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Old 04-22-2005, 06:47 AM   #85
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I was raised in the Protestant faith, but it's been ages since I've been involved in anything regarding that faith, and when I was there I was fairly young, so my memories of it and the rules and stuff like that are hazy, unfortunately. A good site to find out some of this stuff, though, would be religioustolerance.org -they'd definitely have a good explanation of sorts about the differences between the two.

In regards to the discussions in this thread, I have to agree with a lot of what Dread and ZeroDude are saying. I personally don't believe heaven and hell exist to begin with, I lean more towards supporting the idea of reincarnation. But if heaven did exist, I, too, don't agree with the idea of there only being one way there. I believe that, if heaven exists, so long as you have been a generally kind-hearted person throughout your life, you'd go there when all is said and done. If you disagree, that's fine. That's just my personal view on that aspect of it all.

Also, I thought God was supposed to be a mysterious figure. If he's mysterious, then how can we also know what he wants? And in regards to the talk earlier of taking a risk and gambling when it came to waiting and seeing what would happen, that could be said about any religion, as well as those who believe that nothing happens to us at all. We're all taking a gamble here.

Angela
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Old 04-22-2005, 06:56 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally posted by Moonlit_Angel

Also, I thought God was supposed to be a mysterious figure. If he's mysterious, then how can we also know what he wants?
I think it depends on how you view the Bible. I believe that many theologians throughout history have tried too hard to identify characteristics of God, things they could never know. However, as a Calvinist I believe in general and special revelation. General revelation means EVERYONE has access to God and God's Grace through His creation. You don't need to be "chosen" to have the Gospel forced down your throat by missionaries - it's simply there if you choose to see it. Then, there's special revelation, meaning the Holy Spirit works through the scriptures to establish a more conrete relationship with God. In John Jesus says "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." To me, there is no way into God's kingdom but through accepting His grace through Jesus Christ. I believe the scriptures make this very clear.
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Old 04-22-2005, 07:29 AM   #87
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Has anyone mentioned that we Catholics have seven books in our Old Testament that Protestants don't use? I'm no biblical scholar, but I do know what we use is called the Alexandrian canon and the Protestants use the Jerusalem canon. There are two Books of Maccbees in our Bible. Prayers for the dead and such come from 2 Maccabees 12:38-12.46.
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Old 04-22-2005, 07:42 AM   #88
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Volly, avoid getting ugly with religions before someone gets ugly with yours - it really won't do. Also, I would check your facts better next time.

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Old 04-22-2005, 08:53 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
I fail to see how those verses demonstrate that God is not capable of extending grace to whomever God chooses.

respectfully, I disagree.

I thought you were saying there were examples in the Bible of good people who were going to hell.

I would say there are far more examples of people I would consider assholes shown grace.
God will extend grace to whom he chooses, you're right —*he's GOD. It's up to him. However, the Bible's very clear that Christ is the way to heaven.
In terms of good people going to hell, well, I think those two verses say just that (or at least it can easily be deducted from them.)

Think about this — what definition of good are we using here? Your's? Mine? How do we know good is good enough? The truth is we're all sinners, the Bible's very clear about that as well —*we all fall short of God's glory. However, Christ didn't. He led the perfect life. Then he died in our place and paid the penalty of our sin, so we could have eternal life with God IF we chose it. We're only really seen as "good enough" in God's eyes through Christ. When we accept Christ as our Lord and he forgives us of our sins, then before God, we are seen as "righteous." So, in theory, there are killers who have accepted Christ, been forgiven and therefore will go to heaven. Then there will be good people, who lived good lives, but rejected God's grace through Christ, and probably won't get there. There will even be people who call themselves Christians who might not make it, becuase they haven't truly accepted Christ as Lord.
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Old 04-22-2005, 08:57 AM   #90
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If we expand God's Word beyond what is says, are we in effect creating our own god? And does that not make us equal or greater than God?
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