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Old 07-18-2007, 07:27 PM   #106
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Originally posted by Irvine511
how do you let a militant vegetarian know that she is ruining your meal when she looks with disgust at everyone's plate when it arrives?

I'm afraid you'll have to kill her.

Or you could just try to ignore her? I don't know. I'm guessing you've tried everything at this point from calm reason to bitter sarcasm to slurping your lips after a big bite of rare steak. I'm guessing the arguments have all been had and everyone knows how the other feels. So I honestly don't know. If reasoning with her doesn't work, I just honestly can't answer that. She may just have to grow up a little. You could all try having vegetarian meals when you eat together with her just for the sake of family peace at the table, but honestly that doesn't feel right either. The respect must go both ways and I don't know how you teach someone that.
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Old 07-18-2007, 07:34 PM   #107
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Originally posted by maycocksean
They studied the people on the Mediterranean island of Sardinia, the Japanese people of Okinawa, and the Seventh-day Adventists living in Loma Linda, California. Vegetarianism (the lacto-ovo kind) was a factor in the the longevity of the Adventists.
I think I've read somewhere that the Japanese longevity is related to the large amount of fish in their diets.
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Old 07-18-2007, 07:34 PM   #108
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So it's soylent green?
You never saw a grapefruit.
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Old 07-18-2007, 08:09 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
how do you let a militant vegetarian know that she is ruining your meal when she looks with disgust at everyone's plate when it arrives?

she thinks it's a moral thing, and that she's doing the moral thing by objecting to eating meat. it's even more dire, say, than someone driving an earth-raping SUV or not recycling or something.
When I ate meat and I knew meat eating completely grossed someone else out, I ate something else when that person was around. I figured I didn't need or want meat so badly that I needed to gross someone else out.
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Old 07-18-2007, 08:11 PM   #110
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I think I've read somewhere that the Japanese longevity is related to the large amount of fish in their diets.
An even longer life of heavy metal exposure
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Old 07-18-2007, 10:08 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
how do you let a militant vegetarian know that she is ruining your meal when she looks with disgust at everyone's plate when it arrives?

she thinks it's a moral thing, and that she's doing the moral thing by objecting to eating meat. it's even more dire, say, than someone driving an earth-raping SUV or not recycling or something.
Tell them something along the lines of "glare at me all you want, I plan on enjoying my meal, why ruin your own ?"
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Old 07-18-2007, 10:16 PM   #112
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I have a cousin who is a militant vegan. I honestly can't stand to be around her because everything is a big deal and a production. It offends me that she's been doing her BA for 7 years on my grandparents' buck because she's lazy, but hey, I don't bring that up every time I see her. But me enjoying a piece of grilled salmon is cause for a 2 hour lecture.
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Old 07-18-2007, 10:25 PM   #113
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do your militant friends grow their own vegetables, or purchase from farmer's markets?

one strong argument that i as an adamant vegetarian find difficult to disagree with is the mistreatment of the farm workers. you can remind her that, depending on where she purchases her products, of course, millions of immigrant farmworkers slaved for sub-standard wages and are thus forced to live in dehumanizing conditions, just to meet with the demands of her vegetarian lifestyle. what about human rights?

i know...it makes me a hypocrite. but i guess i can only fight one evil at a time? otherwise...what could we eat?

but yeah, that argument usually makes me, a vegetarian, very uncomfortable. good luck next time you dine with your militant friends!
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Old 07-18-2007, 10:32 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally posted by maycocksean
I would really question the doctor who said they've never seen a vegetarian over the age of 40 who is in good health. National Geographic did a study a few years ago on populations who live an extraordinarily long time. They studied the people on the Mediterranean island of Sardinia, the Japanese people of Okinawa, and the Seventh-day Adventists living in Loma Linda, California. Vegetarianism (the lacto-ovo kind) was a factor in the the longevity of the Adventists.
I remember seeing that article. And that Adventist study was a large and comprehensive one carried out over many years by the NIH. They had lower rates of almost all the usual degenerative conditions (heart disease, diabetes, cancer) in addition to the increased longevity. Although, as I recall, the researchers did think their healthier lifestyle in general--no smoking or drinking, more exercise than average, more extensive and close-knit social support systems than average--almost certainly played a role, too. Adventists *might* be somewhat atypical representatives of vegetarians in general in that--correct me if I'm wrong here--the 'religious incentives' extend beyond merely a refusal to eat certain foods, to encompass a 'holistic' commitment to care for one's body and practice a 'healthy lifestyle' generally, including close attention to the state of current medical knowledge on the subject. Although...I believe British studies have found that UK vegetarians generally have slightly greater longevity and lower heart disease rates, at least, as well. I'm pretty sure, though, that even so neither of those groups were "as healthy" (in terms of the usual longevity/degenerative disease indicators) as, say, the Japanese or the Greeks as a whole, even though both those populations eat meat (and smoke, and drink)--albeit none of the above to the degree that Americans do.

I've read a little bit about epidemiological studies on diet and health in India (the only country in the world with truly large numbers of vegetarians) and those don't paint as rosy a picture, though they don't suggest that Indian vegetarians are any less healthy. Heart disease and diabetes are very serious problems in India; they've "led" the "developing world" for some time in that area and by sometime next decade, heart disease is expected to replace infectious diseases as the leading cause of death there. Studies in all the major Indian cities, as well as in several rural areas, haven't found significant differences between vegetarians and nonvegetarians in terms of diabetes and heart disease rates. Like Native Americans, (South Asian) Indians appear to be exceptionally genetically predisposed to these conditions (and, it's speculated, for similar reasons--i.e., adaptation over millennia to an environment where longterm scarcity and periodic famines were common; many of the same metabolic traits which predispose people to diabetes and heart disease are actually assets in such an environment). There are some theories about this: e.g., that contemporary Indian vegetarians may be consuming ill-advisedly high proportions of 'high glycemic index' starches like polished rice, refined wheat and rice and bean flours, and sugar, and that this combined with their relatively not-that-bad,-but-not-that-good-either intake of saturated fats (dairy products, coconut oil) and fried and deep-fried foods may be the culprit. But there isn't enough data to draw many conclusions yet. Nonetheless, I doubt in the extreme that thousands of Indian doctors wouldn't immediately take issue, based on experience, with the claim that vegetarians over 40 are "never" in good health.

I think joyfulgirl's probably right that lifelong vegetarians are more likely both to "know what they're doing"--and then actually make themselves do it--nutritionally speaking. And I certainly get the impression from talking to vegetarian friends about what they eat that, like many other Americans nowadays, most of them have never really learned how to cook or to plan out several days' worth of varied meals, and in the long run that probably takes a toll on the nutritional balance of their diet.
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Old 07-18-2007, 10:39 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally posted by unico
one strong argument that i as an adamant vegetarian find difficult to disagree with is the mistreatment of the farm workers. you can remind her that, depending on where she purchases her products, of course, millions of immigrant farmworkers slaved for sub-standard wages and are thus forced to live in dehumanizing conditions, just to meet with the demands of her vegetarian lifestyle. what about human rights?
Also, that tucking into a salad full of vegetables shipped by refrigerator truck from California's (heavily irrigated) Central Valley in the middle of winter is of dubious ecological "superiority". But then, what's a Midwesterner or Northeasterner to do for half the year? I favor local produce when it's in season, and most of the modest amount of meat our family eats is local too (thank you, Mennonite small farmers), but in most parts of this country the farmer's market is a seasonal option only.
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Old 07-19-2007, 12:01 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
I have a cousin who is a militant vegan. I honestly can't stand to be around her because everything is a big deal and a production. It offends me that she's been doing her BA for 7 years on my grandparents' buck because she's lazy, but hey, I don't bring that up every time I see her. But me enjoying a piece of grilled salmon is cause for a 2 hour lecture.
I remember you saying awhile back you and your family enjoy fishing. Perhaps you could take your cousin along on a fishing trip sometime; you could even get Irvine to ride along in the good old earth-raping family SUV! I'll drive all the way up to Canada in my own SUV and bring some tasty southern barbecued pork, Irvine could bring along some steaks, you could catch some salmon, grill it all up, and how could she resist the aroma of such wonderful surf & turf? But, she may push some militant vegan appetizers on us...

~U2Alabama
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Old 07-19-2007, 12:15 AM   #117
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Originally posted by U2Bama


I remember you saying awhile back you and your family enjoy fishing. Perhaps you could take your cousin along on a fishing trip sometime; you could even get Irvine to ride along in the good old earth-raping family SUV! I'll drive all the way up to Canada in my own SUV and bring some tasty southern barbecued pork, Irvine could bring along some steaks, you could catch some salmon, grill it all up, and how could she resist the aroma of such wonderful surf & turf? But, she may push some militant vegan appetizers on us...

~U2Alabama


Ooh. Can I come?
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Old 07-19-2007, 12:17 AM   #118
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
how do you let a militant vegetarian know that she is ruining your meal when she looks with disgust at everyone's plate when it arrives?

she thinks it's a moral thing, and that she's doing the moral thing by objecting to eating meat. it's even more dire, say, than someone driving an earth-raping SUV or not recycling or something.
I hate to say it, but there's not much you CAN say to some one who is on a moral high horse.

I should know, having been on one a time or two myself!
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Old 07-19-2007, 07:40 PM   #119
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You never saw a grapefruit.
*response to movie reference*
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Old 07-19-2007, 07:43 PM   #120
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