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Old 08-03-2005, 08:25 AM   #16
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This is pretty sick:

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Old 08-03-2005, 11:30 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
Then the dead soldier's father came on and said that this A-hole had the right to do it, that his son died for the constitution, for good or bad.
A sobering truth.







Still, we should assign Phelps group to the landmine detection detail.
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Old 08-03-2005, 04:28 PM   #18
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LOL, not a bad idea, nbcrusader...

Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
That group was in MA last month doing the same thing, at a funeral of a Marine. They also "protested" at an elementary school because a girl wrote a report about Ellen Degeneres
Nice .

Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
They are sickos
No kidding. What sticks got lodged up their butts, and why haven't they removed them?

Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
It was frightening seeing her on the news w/ her little boy holding one of those sick signs along the lines of "God hates fags" "thank God for 9/11"
. So, this is that good ol' "family values" stuff, eh? Passing discrimination on to your child is now a "good family value" to possess?

Right. Whatever.

Angela
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Old 08-03-2005, 08:26 PM   #19
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To all of you not living in the USA let me just say that this guy Phelps is considered to be what he is...a cult leader. He has his own "church" and a very small group of followers whose focus is to hate gays and the USA. The Christian Right/"family values" type people in this country thinks this guy's nuts, his church is no more Christian than a church that is is associated with the KKK.

If he didn't picket funerals, Phelps would be just an annonymous crackpot in the boonies. He's found a way to get media attention (though I doubt any sympathy).

I generally like that America has its share of eccentrics but sometimes you get people like this. Because he clearly is so insane I would say just for everyone to ignore him, but when you're son's funeral is being protested I'd say that's pretty hard to do, telling yourself the people doing it are mentally deranged is not going to take away any of the pain and anger.
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Old 08-04-2005, 02:47 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lemonfix
The Christian Right/"family values" type people in this country thinks this guy's nuts, his church is no more Christian than a church that is is associated with the KKK.
The problem with that is that I never hear anything about the oh-so-balanced nice moral American Christian Right. All I see are reports about people like Phelps, others are burning Harry Potter books, the next are attacking women who go to abortion clinics, while others are satisfied with saying rock is the music of the devil.

I won´t comment in detail on the churches being full of soldiers pictures, not only with comments like "bring my son home safely" but also others like "We pray to you to help us win this just war" (which is directly opposed to the teachings of the Bible - Jesus just said "Love thy enemies").

Ah and btw if the family values of the Christian Right include sending your sons into war, those values aren´t worth a shit.

Or could it be that I just haven´t met all those nice Christians who just don´t get the big media because they´re busy making a cake for the church meeting on Sunday?
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Old 08-04-2005, 03:02 AM   #21
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Also, for those who identify themselves with the Christian Right:
be aware you can´t just continue saying "well this group is nuts and that one is extreme too, but we have good values"

In every big movement, there will be a percentage of extreme people. If there is a reasonable, serious Christian Right in the country, then STOP to defend the people who burn books! Issue a statement in which you distance yourself from all those forms of Bullshit! If you don´t do that, no one will take you serious.

Its the same for the left, if you want to see it like that. If the left doesn´t take enough distance from its extremists (which they have learned to do, thx to God) it will always be judged accordingly.

If I was part of that group, I would not want to be associated with book burners, Phelps, KKK and the like. But you will be associated as long as you don´t condemn their actions. With condeming I don´t mean a messageboard, but large statements in national media, Fox etc.
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Old 08-04-2005, 03:41 AM   #22
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I think that those who value liberty can defend the right to burn a book without condoning the reasons that they do so. It is a form of protected speech in the US just like Phelps and his whole scumbag clan.

And I will conceed that I found the "sodomobile" segment on Michael Moores 'The Awful Truth' to be a truly brilliant means of response too those black hearted bastards who picket funerals.
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Old 08-04-2005, 11:46 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars


The problem with that is that I never hear anything about the oh-so-balanced nice moral American Christian Right. All I see are reports about people like Phelps, others are burning Harry Potter books, the next are attacking women who go to abortion clinics, while others are satisfied with saying rock is the music of the devil.

I
I am no fan of the Christian Right. I definatley wouldn't call them, as a group, nice, I was just saying that this Phelps guys is so out there that the even Christian Right is horrified by him.

And I will defend bookburners with every inch of my being. Not because I agree with them, but because America gives people like them the right to do so.
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Old 08-04-2005, 02:59 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars

The problem with that is that I never hear anything about the oh-so-balanced nice moral American Christian Right.
Probably b/c we don't do anything worth hearing about?

I'm American, I'm Christian, and I'm right-leaning (though not a full-blown Republican). I am NOT a conservativist, I'm NOT a fundamentalist. I am more traditional when it comes to worship style, but as a member of the Christian Reformed Church, which was founded on the basis of moving FORWARD politically, culturally, and religiously, I still don't understand why people think they can decide whether or not two other people can get married, or why people have to go around burning children's books, or why people have to be protesting at someone's funeral.

In response to your other post, I don't feel like it's my responsibility to "issue statements" of protest or disagreement against the more radical, fundamentalist Christian Right. To me, we have about as much in common as a radical Muslim or someone who hates Jews. Do you really think I should be issuing statements of disagreement to distance myself from EVERY group or religious denomination out there? I think that people should stop bundling ALL Christians together as being fundamentalist, conservative hypocrites just because those nut jobs raise hell that makes good news stories.
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Old 08-04-2005, 03:07 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by s_tielemans
and why the hell are they appointed in the supreme court?
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Old 08-04-2005, 03:26 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic


Probably b/c we don't do anything worth hearing about?

I'm American, I'm Christian, and I'm right-leaning (though not a full-blown Republican). I am NOT a conservativist, I'm NOT a fundamentalist. I am more traditional when it comes to worship style, but as a member of the Christian Reformed Church, which was founded on the basis of moving FORWARD politically, culturally, and religiously, I still don't understand why people think they can decide whether or not two other people can get married, or why people have to go around burning children's books, or why people have to be protesting at someone's funeral.

In response to your other post, I don't feel like it's my responsibility to "issue statements" of protest or disagreement against the more radical, fundamentalist Christian Right. To me, we have about as much in common as a radical Muslim or someone who hates Jews. Do you really think I should be issuing statements of disagreement to distance myself from EVERY group or religious denomination out there? I think that people should stop bundling ALL Christians together as being fundamentalist, conservative hypocrites just because those nut jobs raise hell that makes good news stories.
I agree with your post, but even in your post, you are doing what you call "bundling", though you obviously are not intending to. You are bundling conservative and fundamentalist Christians together as "those nut jobs" that "raise hell". I am a conservative fundamentalist Christian who doesn't "raise hell".
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Old 08-05-2005, 04:32 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
I think that those who value liberty can defend the right to burn a book without condoning the reasons that they do so.
Well, I for one can´t (defend the right). Does that mean I don´t value liberty?
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Old 08-05-2005, 04:45 AM   #28
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Can you tollerate it?
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Old 08-05-2005, 04:45 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic



In response to your other post, I don't feel like it's my responsibility to "issue statements" of protest or disagreement against the more radical, fundamentalist Christian Right. To me, we have about as much in common as a radical Muslim or someone who hates Jews. Do you really think I should be issuing statements of disagreement to distance myself from EVERY group or religious denomination out there? I think that people should stop bundling ALL Christians together as being fundamentalist, conservative hypocrites just because those nut jobs raise hell that makes good news stories.
I am absolutely not bundling all Christians together; I am a Christian myself.

I don´t think you should be issuing statements of disagreement or distancing yourself, but that the conservative Christian organizations should.

I´m not into comparing fundamentalist Phelps´ Christians with radical Muslims, but see, you got the same thing here: some Rabbis/ Muslim organizations are indeed issuing statements that they are totally against any form of terrorism, that´s not what the Koran is about, etc. Or another example: at demonstations, the big group of non-violent protesters often has to issue statements against violent protest, because there are a few "black sheep" who still are violent. If there is no statement, everyone assumes that they agree

But the Christian Right?

Oooooh dear meeee, noooooo, why should anyone issue statements of disagreement! It´s just their right and everything.

Well sure it is, but if the Christian Right org. don´t make an official statement, I have to assume that it fully supports those actions. That´s how things work.

Can you see my point of view?
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Old 08-05-2005, 04:54 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Can you tollerate it?
I guess I will have to tolerate it. But there is a big difference between tolerating something and defending it. There´s a difference if you say "I guess I have to tolerate this because, well *sigh* it´s just like that" - with which one expresses the opinion that he doesn´t agree

and saying "Oh ohoh, but they have the right to burn books, it´s a protected form of free speech, those who value liberty know that" -with which one expresses that burning books is not aaaall bad somehow, let those little freaks do what they want without even saying a word against it - that´s defending them and even trying to put down the critisizers by implying they have no "liberal" values.
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