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Old 03-17-2006, 12:33 PM   #106
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Okay, so here's my question: What would you suggest we do with those same-sex twosomes who happen to be related rearing a child? I.E. two brothers or two sisters raising a child? I have a good friend who was raised by two brothers. He's a well-adjusted young man.
And let's not forget thaqt homosexuals DO have friends of the opposite sex to help with issues specific to gender. Personally, I think children are being done a major disservicve here, to deny them a loving home because of the sexuality of the persons involved. The horror these foster kids are going through now, in 'normative' foster homes, is certainly much worse than anything a loving gay couple could EVER do to them.
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Old 03-18-2006, 10:12 PM   #107
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or, what if you weren't labeling an entire society fascist, but were aware of fascist impulses within the society you live?

i don't think anyone is calling the US fascist.

but i do think there are fascist impulses within American politics, many of which are easy to dismiss when they don't affect you directly.
Not really related to the topic but....

There are indeed facist impulses in US politics, and some commentators view the United States as gradually adopting increasingly fascist-like tendancies. Even so, as soon as the US resembles too much like a fascist state, the masses will probably, and hopefully, shift the nation back towards the left...

If Fascism and Communism are the two extremes, and if Fascism is unquestionably worse than Communism, then what would you rather put up with? A semi-fascist state or a semi-commy state?


Back to the topic...

Any notion that there is something wrong with same-sex parenting is pathetic speculation. There is NO WAY any clown can suggest that the "traditional" male-female parenting combo is in any way more capable of raising a child than a same-sex couple.

All that matters is that a child is nurtured into a respectful, honest, human being who is without prejudice and is given every opportunity to fulfill their own goals.

Gender is irrelevant when it comes to how a child should be raised. What matters more than anything is whether the parent is, a "good" parent. What matters is whether the INDIVIDUAL has the ability to successfully raise a child.

Rather than fighting some pathetically ludicrous fight against same-sex parents, (launched by the usual conservative suspects), let's fight against INEQUALITY in OPPORTUNITY for children.

Let's make sure that a child's future is dependent NOT on how much money their parents just so happen to have or have not, but instead on providing EVERY child, regardless of race, religion, class and income, the opportunity to experience and prosper in any field a child would like to.

Privilege based on INDIVIDUAL MERIT has been an all but forgotten piece of common sense, and we must fight for this necesaary value.

If not, many children will fall by the wayside, BASED MERELY ON THEIR PARENT(S) INCOME.

That is corruption...
That is unfair...
That is INEQUALITY OF OPPORTUNITY...

The total de-privatisation of education would be a good place to start.....
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Old 03-18-2006, 10:59 PM   #108
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If Fascism and Communism are the two extremes, and if Fascism is unquestionably worse than Communism, then what would you rather put up with? A semi-fascist state or a semi-commy state?
Fascism and communism are practically kissing cousins when it comes to political ideologies, they are the same type of extreme namely that of statism - the other extreme is anarchy.

As for fascism being "unquestionably worse" than communism I think that we could contrast hard fascism (Nazism) and hard communism (Stalinism) with soft fascism (Pinochet or Franco) and soft communism (Tito). By the numbers communism killed a a lot more people than fascism ever had a chance to.
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Old 03-18-2006, 11:19 PM   #109
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Let's make sure that a child's future is dependent NOT on how much money their parents just so happen to have or have not, but instead on providing EVERY child, regardless of race, religion, class and income, the opportunity to experience and prosper in any field a child would like to.

Privilege based on INDIVIDUAL MERIT has been an all but forgotten piece of common sense, and we must fight for this necesaary value.

If not, many children will fall by the wayside, BASED MERELY ON THEIR PARENT(S) INCOME.

That is corruption...
That is unfair...
That is INEQUALITY OF OPPORTUNITY...

The total de-privatisation of education would be a good place to start.....
Great take away peoples right to choose in the name of equality. The mentality that in order to provide basic opportunity you must create a single system of government mandated "equality" is an inherently statist position.

People surrender liberty for government benefits. Governments only takes away rights, they do not give them. Enforcing equality by condemning all to a mediocre system without any choice will not suddenly make it all better, the rich will live near the good schools and the poor will still get the bottom of the barrel.

I went to a state school and earnt my HECS place, I know a good many people who went to private schools as well who do not come from filthy rich families, their parents made sacrifices to give them what they feel was a better opportunity - they got where they are today on the basis of their own merit. These people pay taxes that go towards state schools even though they do not enjoy the benefits, maybe a voucher system would be a much better way to go.
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Old 03-18-2006, 11:42 PM   #110
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Great take away peoples right to choose in the name of equality. The mentality that in order to provide basic opportunity you must create a single system of government mandated "equality" is an inherently statist position.

People surrender liberty for government benefits. Governments only takes away rights, they do not give them. Enforcing equality by condemning all to a mediocre system without any choice will not suddenly make it all better, the rich will live near the good schools and the poor will still get the bottom of the barrel.

I went to a state school and earnt my HECS place, I know a good many people who went to private schools as well who do not come from filthy rich families, their parents made sacrifices to give them what they feel was a better opportunity - they got where they are today on the basis of their own merit. These people pay taxes that go towards state schools even though they do not enjoy the benefits, maybe a voucher system would be a much better way to go.
Fair call, but we need to be careful when we talk about choice here....

Remember, school is NOT for the parents. It is for the child, and a child is essentially choiceless when they embark on their educational journey.

Why must a child suffer from shoddy facilities (having to share a locker), disorganised sport (one-day-a-year football or netball representation) and limited artistic performance opportunities (why is it that for major events, it is private school musicians and dancers who get chosen ahead of budding artists from public schools?)?

It is too general to say that many parents make financial sacrifices to send their children to private schools. For many, it is not that they would be unwilling to make the sacrifice, but rather, it is a case of being UNABLE to make the sacrifice.

A single mother with 3 or 4 kids who is living off welfare could NEVER make the sacrifice. It is completely out of the question. There is NO choice for her. Where can she find $10,000 spare?

I have nothing against parents sending of kids to private schools. It is somewhat admirable that parents are willing to make that sacrifice, and it exhibits true care for their children. Would I do the same for my children, if I had the money? When considering the state of some of the public schools I probably would.

But doesn't it make more sense to ensure that every child, regardless of money, starts at the same rung on the ladder of opportunity? Each rung they climb should be a result of MERIT.

The least the private schools could do is share their facilities. It is cruel and heartless not to....

We cannot dismiss this as too idealistic. We need to strive for the equalisation of education. It was never meant to be any other way. Schools should be schools. The words private and public need to be rendered meaningless if we want to deliver equal opportunity.

Remember this is about the kids, not the parents....
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Old 03-18-2006, 11:55 PM   #111
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The least the private schools could do is share their facilities. It is cruel and heartless not to....
Firstly there are often situations where private schools share their facilities. Secondly they should not be under any duress to do so. Facilities are part of school property, if it is a private school then the school should have the right to choose if people can use their facilities and for what price.

Forcing owners of private property to share undermines the principle of property ownership. That is a form of idealism that I find abhorent.
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Old 03-19-2006, 12:04 AM   #112
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I already had a huge tirade on this subject somewhere in this forum (I forget the thread), so I won't repeat myself.

But I don't think the solution to improving education is to eliminate the competition. Name one industry where having one choice has resulted in a good product. Instead, I think turning education into an open and competitive atmosphere is a good idea. Then public schools would be forced to compete for their money, rather than just sitting back, churning the same old crap, and begging for even more money that eventually gets wasted.

I think I'd have a good laugh at seeing more than a few existing public schools close for lack of attendance someday.

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Old 03-19-2006, 12:27 AM   #113
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Two gays should not raise children together. Bottom line. Of course, there's no law against it. But in fairness to the child, it is immoral.

If two gays wanna marry, all the more power to them. let them be miserable like all the straight married folks. But don't push their ideas on children.
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Old 03-19-2006, 12:38 AM   #114
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But don't push their ideas on children.
Right, because the ideas of love are wrong.
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Old 03-19-2006, 12:48 AM   #115
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You know how it goes. People just imagine what it would be like to have two straight guys raising children. Since there's no wife to burp and wipe their ass for them, let alone their children, it's no wonder they think that it would be "bad for the children."

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Old 03-19-2006, 12:58 AM   #116
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You go Melon. Keep of suckin! Hopefully any kids of yours will be straight.
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Old 03-19-2006, 01:06 AM   #117
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You go Melon. Keep of suckin! Hopefully any kids of yours will be straight.
The scientific evidence says that they will be at a rate no different than that of the general population. But, of course, who cares about the science when you can just let your fears, emotions, and personal prejudices get the best of you? That's the American way, after all.

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Old 03-19-2006, 01:08 AM   #118
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The scientific evidence says that they will be at a rate no different than that of the general population.
Melon
Let's hear your scientific evidence. Which publication is it from? I'd love to hear it. or do you just make it up as you go along?
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Old 03-19-2006, 01:09 AM   #119
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Let's hear your scientific evidence. Which publication is it from? I'd love to hear it. or do you just make it up as you go along?
Do you have a reason for being here?
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Old 03-19-2006, 01:10 AM   #120
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Let's hear your scientific evidence. Which publication is it from? I'd love to hear it. or do you just make it up as you go along?
You're the detective. Why don't you use your sleuthing skills and find it? I shouldn't have to do all the work for you.

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