Proselytizing - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-17-2004, 08:52 AM   #16
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 07:21 AM
There are significant differences between Catholicism and Protestantism, but I do agree both are branches of the same religion, Christianity. Unfortunately I think there's misunderstanding between the two groups. I consider myself a "convert" because I went from lukewarm, at most, Protestantism, to outright skepticism, when I barely believed in God, to Catholicism, not just from Protestantism to Catholicism. There are some Protestants who think Catholicism is a Satanic cult and Catholics who think Protestantism is some big evil force. This mentality drives me nuts. It's all wrong. It's stuff that reasonable people can disagree on.
__________________

__________________
verte76 is offline  
Old 12-17-2004, 08:53 AM   #17
Blue Crack Addict
 
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 19,266
Local Time: 01:21 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by verte76
A person has to decide that they want to follow Religion X. I can't make that decision for anyone else.
Exactly. I don't know what belief system they feel comfortable with, I don't know what would make them feel good spiritually or anything, so to act like I do know would seem awfully arrogant.

Not to mention, if I forced somebody to join my faith, then it would be even more pointless because they most likely wouldn't be sincere when it came to praising whatever it is we're praising. If I'm going to be celebrating my beliefs with someone, I'd like it a lot better if they sincerely believed/loved what I believe/love, instead of just saying they did just to make me happy.

Angela
__________________

__________________
Moonlit_Angel is online now  
Old 12-17-2004, 08:58 AM   #18
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 11:21 PM
Whether you realize it or not, everyone proselytizes in some form or another. Words and actions speak volumes about our beliefs without actually articulating what we believe.

As I see it, motivations for conscious proselytizing fall into the following basic categories:

1. Rewards for converts. Some faiths have systems set up where you get points towards your own salvation by bringing in new members (or, in some cases, killing off those who don't convert).

2. Uncontrollable joy. Ones faith is so awesome in their own life, they cannot keep it to themselves and what other to share with others.

3. Logical requirement. If loving your neighbor (or some other iteration) is a central tenant of faith and your faith also provides a cure to death (eternal life or other reward), you would not love your neighbor if you did not tell them about this great cure.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 12-17-2004, 10:29 AM   #19
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 07:21 AM
Sharing one's faith is cool. The best way to do this is by setting a good example so that others will want to be like you.
__________________
verte76 is offline  
Old 12-17-2004, 10:34 AM   #20
Refugee
 
angel_of_L.A.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Where soul meets body...
Posts: 1,074
Local Time: 12:21 AM
I keep my religious beliefs to myself but I do live out my faith everyday with my daily activities. I try to be a good selfless person everyday and put the needs of others before my own, I volunteer, and I treat others the way I'd like to be treated. Somedays I am better at it than others, no one is perfect but I never go around shoving my religion down anyone's throat. I have been proselytized before, someone in my family became a Jehova's Witness and then proceeded to tell everyone we were going to hell because we were the wrong kind of Christian. We just ignored the remarks.

Quote:
Originally posted by AcrobatMan
I think no well-educated, rational, not-suffering-from-poverty, sane guy or girl would ever considering abandoning a religion to join another one.

I think there are these reasons of religious conversion

1) Offer of money, land or job to those converted - this generally works on poor people.

2) Offer of emotional help to those with no emotional help.. This is EXPLOITATION. Or emotional blackemail. Sometimes this is combined with 1).

3) Misleading people by telling half-truths and lies - this generally works for uneducated souls..and their life are extinguished before they can be enlightened

AcrobatMan

I do agree with your points and nbc made an excellent point about proselytizing with our actions. We do influence people by our behavior.

Acrobat I have been told that there are a lot of the types of conversions that you mentioned occuring at an alarming rate in Latin America. The people there are mostly Catholic, and Protestant missionaries from Southern fundamentalist churches have begun to proselytize the rural and urban poor by telling them that the reason that they are poor, have a high infant mortality rate and have children who are disabled, is because they are the wrong kind of Christians and this is God's way of punishing them. As a result, lots of conversions have taken place and many disabled children have been abandoned to quickly make amends with God. In Guatemala, the orphanages are overfilled with abandoned children of new converts.

Instead of taking a proactive approach like liberation theology advocates and fighting the structural violence that keeps the cycle of poverty going in these developing countries, a new religion has been introduced (by fundamentalist Americans nonetheless) as a mean to blame the poor for their current situation. How does this help anybody? Why must the children pay yet again?
__________________
angel_of_L.A. is offline  
Old 12-17-2004, 10:57 AM   #21
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 07:21 AM
That's horrible about the abandoned children in Latin America. I think those particular fundamentalists should be ashamed of themselves.
__________________
verte76 is offline  
Old 12-17-2004, 11:01 AM   #22
Refugee
 
angel_of_L.A.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Where soul meets body...
Posts: 1,074
Local Time: 12:21 AM
They should be verte but they aren't because they are doing the Lord's "work."
__________________
angel_of_L.A. is offline  
Old 12-17-2004, 11:19 AM   #23
Blue Crack Addict
 
starsgoblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Looking for direction to perfection
Posts: 17,828
Local Time: 02:21 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by ZeroDude
Great differences between Catholicism and Protestantism, I should know i'm from Belfast......

To an, for lack of better word outsider, it may not seem like a difference but there really is. The issues that unforetunatly seem to divide the two are huge...


And to answer the original poster....I don't try to prostelytize to anyone, to me I feel like that is something personal and if someone wants to ask me I would be ok with discussing it. I don't like or agree with the ultra-fundies who try to assert thier own image of God on everyone....doesn't seem to be in line with God's character IMO. While I am comfortable with my faith the majority of my family finds it odd, since I was born Jewish. Being Jewish is a cultural as well as religious thing....and while I identify with the cultural aspect I never felt completley comfortable with the religious side...I don't know, it'd take a longer post to explain that whole situation I suppose...
__________________
starsgoblue is offline  
Old 12-17-2004, 11:30 AM   #24
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 11:21 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by angel_of_L.A.
They should be verte but they aren't because they are doing the Lord's "work."
If true, this is tragic. A horrible result of bad theology (prosperity gospel).
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 12-17-2004, 02:11 PM   #25
Blue Crack Addict
 
beli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In a frock in Western Australia
Posts: 15,464
Local Time: 03:21 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Whether you realize it or not, everyone proselytizes in some form or another.

As I see it, motivations for conscious proselytizing fall into the following basic categories:

1. Rewards for converts. Some faiths have systems ......
I dont have a faith system. Im an atheist

Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
2. Uncontrollable joy. Ones faith is so awesome in their own life, they cannot keep it to themselves and what other to share with others. [/B]
Sometimes Im really happy but that has nothing to do with the absence of gods in my life.


Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
3. Logical requirement. If loving your neighbor (or some other iteration) is a central tenant of faith [/B]
Central tenant of YOUR particular faith. And certainly not my lack of faith.
__________________
beli is offline  
Old 12-17-2004, 02:16 PM   #26
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
speedracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: MD
Posts: 7,572
Local Time: 02:21 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by verte76
Sharing one's faith is cool. The best way to do this is by setting a good example so that others will want to be like you.
"Preach the gospel always, and if necessary, use words." -- St. Francis of Assisi (I think)
__________________
speedracer is offline  
Old 12-18-2004, 12:26 AM   #27
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Macfistowannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,129
Local Time: 03:21 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Whether you realize it or not, everyone proselytizes in some form or another. Words and actions speak volumes about our beliefs without actually articulating what we believe.
I agree. I think we're all guilty of it.
__________________
Macfistowannabe is offline  
Old 12-18-2004, 12:36 AM   #28
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,667
Local Time: 01:21 AM
NBC is right everyone does to some point or another. If people ask I'm glad to discuss my faith or whatever. But it has to be welcome, I don't think it does any good to go knocking on doors to spread the word(sorry to any Mormons out there). But I sure like screwing with them.
__________________
BVS is offline  
Old 12-18-2004, 12:43 AM   #29
ONE
love, blood, life
 
indra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 12,689
Local Time: 03:21 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
NBC is right everyone does to some point or another. If people ask I'm glad to discuss my faith or whatever. But it has to be welcome, I don't think it does any good to go knocking on doors to spread the word(sorry to any Mormons out there). But I sure like screwing with them.
Ha! I know a guy who when the door knockers come calling with their "Have you read the Bible?" line says "Yes. Have you?" brings them in, whips out his Bible (and perhaps a few texts from other religions too), and proceeds to give them quite a lesson. A couple of hours later they are just about begging to leave!
__________________
indra is offline  
Old 12-18-2004, 12:46 AM   #30
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Song of the week "sentimental" by Porcupine Tree
Posts: 3,854
Local Time: 07:21 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


If true, this is tragic.

There should be no IF here... That is true and that is tragic.

Misinterpretation by fundamentalists !!
__________________

__________________
AcrobatMan is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com