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Old 02-23-2003, 01:47 AM   #16
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Honestly, I never thought I'd see my government declaring, and fighting, a "holy war". No wonder Bush used the word "crusade" right after 9/11. He was showing his true colors. Gosh, this is a nightmare. I absolutely cannot believe this is going on in 2003
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Old 02-23-2003, 01:49 AM   #17
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*moves to Sweden
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Old 02-23-2003, 01:50 AM   #18
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All I can think of is the Irish guy in Braveheart.....

He heard words from the almighty if I remember correctly too.
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Old 02-23-2003, 01:51 AM   #19
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Two grown men believing their fighting for God...

I still say throw both of them in a caged ring... duke it out... and leave the rest of the world out of it.
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Old 02-23-2003, 01:51 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by meegannie
*moves to Sweden
Not a bad idea.
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Old 02-23-2003, 02:07 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by theSoulfulMofo
Two grown men believing their fighting for God...

I still say throw both of them in a caged ring... duke it out... and leave the rest of the world out of it.

I like that.
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Old 02-23-2003, 08:04 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by meegannie
*moves to Sweden
Its friggin cold there.

Check Spain with The Absent One, will ya?

Or another neutral country. Go south of Sweden anyway.
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Old 02-23-2003, 08:41 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
All I can think of is the Irish guy in Braveheart.....
The Lord says He thinks he can get me out of this one...but He's pretty sure...you're fucked.
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Old 02-23-2003, 09:02 AM   #24
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The Lord says He thinks he can get me out of this one...but He's pretty sure...you're fucked.
Yep...that is the one!
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Old 02-23-2003, 11:13 AM   #25
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I can't believe that he is tying the Iraqi issue to a Christian Jihad. I'm a Christian and my church is against this war.

If anyone gets Worldlink they are going to have an excellent documentary on Iraq this week.

Honestly, the man scares me to death.
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Old 02-23-2003, 01:05 PM   #26
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My church is against the war too. I'm Catholic; can you say "the Pope isn't liking this war stuff, the bishops don't, and my friends who are Benedictine nuns don't"?? I don't know any Catholics who support this thing, not even the conservatives! This shocked me, when I found out some big shot conservative in my church is against the war. Actually, a few of them do support the war, but certainly not as a "holy war". The "Holy War" thing= . It's the worst of the Middle Ages returned.
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Old 02-23-2003, 01:47 PM   #27
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I am a conservative. I am in no way shape or form against using military intervention to remove Saddam Hussein from power. I am 100% certain that he has WMD's. I am 100% convinced that he is has done and will do horrific things if he is allowed to continue.

My reasons for war, have nothing to do with Religion. They have everything to do with the fact that the policy of containment is failing. They have everything to do with the fact that in my opinion, the United Nations is a useless organization IF they do nothing to enforce their own resolutions. I also 100% BELIEVE that if we move forward without the Security Council on this issue, we are making life in the future, much more difficult for our country. Without the UN we lose the moral ground and the backing of the international community.

The article I posted above I have read three times. It disturbs me. It bothers me that there are people who have the Presidents' ear on these issues, who are guiding him to take action on religious grounds. It bothers me, that the President percieves that the ALMIGHTY wills us to go into Iraq with WAR. It is almost as if the PRESIDENT is saying, United Nations, GOD has told me to do this. It bothers me tremendously, and I pray and pray on it that a peaceful solution can be found.

The President has pledged 15 Billion Dollars to help AIDS in Africa. Without getting into the politics around this issue.....Let's look at what he is pledging to our "GOOD ALLY" Turkey so that we can use the bases for a WAR that the United Nations has not given approval for. Turkey is being offered "26 Billion Dollars" in aid. WE are offering an entire continent 16 Billion in for AIDS and 26 Billion to one country for WAR. The "Almighty" must really want the War or the Almight must not be speaking loudly enough on AIDS.
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Old 02-23-2003, 02:18 PM   #28
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Interesting that Newspapers in the Middle East are also focusing in on this Religious Relationship and the BUsh Administration. I am not saying this is the most reliable newspaper in the world, nor am I saying I agree with anything said in it. However, it definitely points to the fact that there is definitley a growing perception on this issue by Muslims in the Middle East. Some clips for you to read:


On Feb. 9, The Washington Post's Bob Kaiser finally broke through the sound barrier to document what has long been reported in encrypted diplomatic e-mails from foreign embassies to dozens of foreign governments: Washington's "Likudniks" - Ariel Sharon's powerful backers in the Bush administration - have been in charge of U.S. policy in the Middle East since President Bush was sworn into office.

In alliance with Evangelical Christians, these policy-makers include some of the most powerful players in the Bush administration. The course they plotted for Mr. Bush began with benign neglect of the Mideast peace process as Intifada II escalated. September 11 provided the impulse for a military campaign to consign Saddam Hussein to the dustbin of history.


and some more

The roots of the overall strategy can be traced to a paper published in 1996 by the Institute for Advanced Strategic and Political Studies, an Israeli think tank. The document was titled "A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm" and was designed as a political blueprint for the incoming government of Benjamin Netanyahu, a superhawk in the Israeli political aviary. The complete break with the past was to be a new strategy "based on an entirely new intellectual foundation, one that restores strategic initiative and provides the nation the room to engage every possible energy on rebuilding Zionism."

Israel, according to the 1996 paper, would "shape its strategic environment," beginning with the removal of Saddam Hussein and the restoration of the Hashemite monarchy in Baghdad. The Iraqi monarchy was overthrown in a military coup in 1958 when young King Faisal, a cousin of Jordan's late King Hussein, was assassinated.

and


The rebuilding of Zionism, as the paper urged, must at the same time abandon any thought of trading land for peace with the Arabs, which it described as "cultural, economic, political, diplomatic and military retreat."




Whole article here:

http://www.miftah.org/Display.cfm?Do...6&CategoryId=5

This paper keeps popping up everywhere. This paper that was written for the Governement of Israel, was written by Richard Perle on of the leading advisors to the President on Foreign Policy.

"A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm" can be found here:

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/a...calstudies.htm
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Old 02-23-2003, 02:31 PM   #29
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Dreadsox--I understand that not everyone supporting the war is supporting this "holy war" stuff. One of the priests at my church supports the war, but not as a holy war or any such a thing. It's strictly policy with him. I think Saddam is a and I don't like him at all. If they could guarantee that a war would take him out I'd feel differently, but I'm afraid I don't necessarily think that a war would take him out. Perhaps. It's going to be very difficult to democratize these countries, but I definitely think this would be in their best interest in the long run. If they were democracies perhaps there would be no terrorists.
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Old 02-23-2003, 03:46 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox

The President has pledged 15 Billion Dollars to help AIDS in Africa. Without getting into the politics around this issue.....Let's look at what he is pledging to our "GOOD ALLY" Turkey so that we can use the bases for a WAR that the United Nations has not given approval for. Turkey is being offered "26 Billion Dollars" in aid. WE are offering an entire continent 16 Billion in for AIDS and 26 Billion to one country for WAR. The "Almighty" must really want the War or the Almight must not be speaking loudly enough on AIDS.
Great point.
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