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Old 08-02-2006, 07:01 AM   #1
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Proper Education Standards Prevail

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Conservative Republicans who approved new classroom standards that call evolution into question lost control of the State Board of Education in Tuesday's primary election.

A victory by pro-evolution Republican candidate Jana Shaver over conservative Republican Brad Patzer, who supported the standards treating evolution as a flawed theory, meant conservatives would at best have five of 10 seats on the board.

Five seats were up for election in the primary, the latest skirmish in a seesawing battle between faith and science that has opened Kansas up to international ridicule.

Conservative Republican John Bacon kept his seat by besting two pro-evolution challengers. But Shaver's win split the makeup of the board between evolution supporters and opponents. She won a seat that was vacant because a conservative Republican evolution opponent was retiring.

Besides Bacon and Shaver's races, the seats of two conservative Republicans who oppose evolution were up for grabs, along with that of a Democrat who favors evolution.

Janet Waugh, a Kansas City Democrat who opposed the new standards, defeated a more conservative Democrat who favored the anti-evolution language with 65 percent of the vote.

One conservative incumbent, Ken Willard, held on to his seat, but another, Connie Morris, was losing to a pro-evolution candidate.

Morris' race in western Kansas was the most closely watched. The former teacher has described evolution as "an age-old fairy tale" and "a nice bedtime story" unsupported by science.
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Good to see a defeat against a state curriculum that would violate the first amendment.
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Old 08-02-2006, 11:45 AM   #2
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I'm glad the evolutionists are making a comeback. Creationism is not something they should teach in the schools, that's for church.
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Old 08-02-2006, 12:20 PM   #3
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This issue seems like such a waste of time. Who cares of evolution theory is flawed? Religion or not, no human being can ever really have a definite answer. If ID is so important to these Republicans, they can start an ID Bible study group at their church or something.

I still find it ironic that this is actually an issue for public schools. Each of the private schools I went to taught evolution theory, as well as three or four other theories of creation. My highschool bio teacher was so into evolution, you'd think he was a collegue of Darwin's. What's that? Christians DO believe in evolution and ARE open to learning about it?
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Old 08-02-2006, 12:25 PM   #4
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You know what they oughtta do to solve this whole mess?

Just tell the kids this:

"It is now time to study the Origins Of Life. There is plenty of information about this subject on the internet, the library, and other places. If you are curious about the origins of life, please do your own research and believe what you think is most correct. Now, on to the next subject..."
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Old 08-02-2006, 12:27 PM   #5
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I live in the same city as John Bacon. He's a boob.
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Old 08-02-2006, 12:27 PM   #6
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I'm surprised we would look at any educational matter using a "who cares if it is flawed" standard. Any challenge to evolution is considered by many to be a religious act - which is intellectually dishonest.
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Old 08-02-2006, 12:36 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
I'm surprised we would look at any educational matter using a "who cares if it is flawed" standard.
Well, we learn about plenty of flawed theories through the school years: people who thought the earth was flat, people who thought the solar system revolved around the earth, etc....any number of "flawed" scientific theories.. The point is not that you're going to memorize the theory and get behing it 100%, it demonstrates the human thought process and gives you a starting point for further thought and research. I can't say whether evolution is flawed or not because I'm not a scientist and I haven't studied science in years. If some Republican politician decides (based on his political agenda) that a scientific theory is inherently flawed, I don't think school curriculum needs to instantly change.
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Old 08-02-2006, 12:53 PM   #8
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This is not an either/or proposition.

History shows us how scientific theories are changed, redefined or simply tossed out. It is an end result of continued examination and discussion.

For political reasons, there is a strong desire to end all discussion.
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Old 08-02-2006, 01:09 PM   #9
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All scientific theories are flawed. Copernicus was right in contending that the earth went around the sun and not vice versa, but he also thought the planets made perfect circles around the sun. This was wrong, of course, they're elliptical. Evolution may be a flawed theory but it's the strongest one out there right now. ID belongs in church.
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Old 08-02-2006, 01:11 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
This is not an either/or proposition.

History shows us how scientific theories are changed, redefined or simply tossed out. It is an end result of continued examination and discussion.

For political reasons, there is a strong desire to end all discussion.


do you really think that Creationism/ID is an effective means of changing, redefining, or tossing out something as fundamental to biology as evolution?

would you champion the same "challenges" to other theories as fundamental to other areas of science such as plate tectonics?

or is it the hysterical jumping up and down and pointing and screaming "theory! just a theory!" ONLY when it comes to evolution the true political act? is it also a political act to view the challenging of a non-scientific challenge to science as "silencing"?
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Old 08-02-2006, 01:21 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


History shows us how scientific theories are changed, redefined or simply tossed out. It is an end result of continued examination and discussion.
Exactly! So why are these politicians arguing that evolution theory be treated like a bedtime story simply because it may or may not be flawed?
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Old 08-02-2006, 01:46 PM   #12
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I think many are trying to get a discussion to occur in the classroom. We've seen repeated statements (in our FYM history on this subject) that the discussion should not even occur.
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Old 08-02-2006, 01:52 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
I think many are trying to get a discussion to occur in the classroom. We've seen repeated statements (in our FYM history on this subject) that the discussion should not even occur.
I think that the discussion is valid, but giving to each thing its proper place. I attended a catholic school runned by nuns . and that discussion about the theories of the origin of the universe was present there, they taught us about the creationism and the evolution theory and they explain to us that the "Genesis" is a story that show how God is behind our existence and how He took His time ("His notion of Time is different from ours") to made all the things appear and grow. that story is a metaphore, the people who wrote it didn't have the intention to give us a "scientific" point of view, but they had the intuition of a benevolent and allmighty being behind their world, and that's (at least for me) the truth that they were trying to comunicate.

I think that both theories can be told to the students, but in the right place. The Evolution theory is science, because it has been elaborated from the scientific method, and the creationism would be better in philophy or Religion, because is an spiritual view of the world. Giving some time to comfront and discuss those theories will stimulate the inteligence of the students and they will be able to elaborate their own (and respetable) conclusions.

Besides, I think it is not right to considerate school as a place to teach the absolute TRUTH (because in the first place there aren't absolute truths) but a place to construct our intelligence, to theach kids to question their reality and the things that we the adults try to impose as the Truth.
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Old 08-02-2006, 02:04 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
I think many are trying to get a discussion to occur in the classroom. We've seen repeated statements (in our FYM history on this subject) that the discussion should not even occur.


would you discuss astrology in an astronomy class?
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Old 08-02-2006, 02:18 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
You know what they oughtta do to solve this whole mess?

Just tell the kids this:

"It is now time to study the Origins Of Life. There is plenty of information about this subject on the internet, the library, and other places. If you are curious about the origins of life, please do your own research and believe what you think is most correct. Now, on to the next subject..."
With this line of thinking no one would ever learn anything. What if you did this with slavery, holocaust, or health?
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