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Old 03-26-2003, 03:30 PM   #31
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Originally posted by melon


The U.S. isn't interested in freedom of the press as much as pro-U.S. coverage. And that's a fact.

Melon
First off, I am skeptical of anyone who states an opinion about something and then declares that it's a fact.

And second - "And that's a fact" is a term that Bill O'Reilly usually closes his opinionated statements with. Interesting to see you both have the same mindset.
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Old 03-26-2003, 03:41 PM   #32
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Originally posted by womanfish
First off, I am skeptical of anyone who states an opinion about something and then declares that it's a fact.

And second - "And that's a fact" is a term that Bill O'Reilly usually closes his opinionated statements with. Interesting to see you both have the same mindset.
Blah blah blah. I don't watch O'Reilly, nor am I familiar with his phrases. This is a deflection of the points of what I wrote with character attacks. Nice try, but you're going to have to do better than that. Try again, but, next time, do it on the merits of the substance of my comments.

And if it will make all of you all touchy-feely inside, I'll retract my "And that's a fact." Now, with that retraction, comment on the substance of what I wrote.

Melon
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Old 03-26-2003, 03:46 PM   #33
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American propaganda has really propelled the United States to war.

Myth tells a nation who they are, what they stand for and attempts to establish good purpose for sending its youth to spill their blood and lose their lives on foreign soil. Propaganda is the means of propelling myth into motion. Propaganda, is all over the media... one sided arguments on CNN, interviewing Iraqis against the regime, but not those for the regime (and there are some)... the gallop polls don't seem to reliable.... and most importantly, the deliberate lack of information given with respect to what I call the WHY factor... That is essentially that the American media seems to investigate the Where, when, how's and what's... without asking Why something is happening...

A common report of those who see European TV (as I do via satellite) or middle eastern tv is those pictures of Iraqi, Palestinian, Afghanistan bodies... devastation. Such horrifying devastation are not shown to Americans. No wonder Europeans oppose this war so heavily. They see the results of America's foreign policy. French media will show us the destruction Iraqi homes, the Americans will not. Only mild death toll numbers are discussed on U.S. stations. But if there are American POW's or bodies, they are almost always shown... the same clips time and time again (God keep the POW's safe nevertheless.)

Further , CNN will mention that a Palestinian suicide bomber did another terrible act, and follow up on that story. However, why doesn't CNN show us the daily destruction of Palestinian homes and stores, the missile attacks on schools and hospitals etc... Watch European tv, and you can see the devastation. However, Why doesn't U.S. media show us. Why doesn't the media discuss why suicide bombers are doing such terrible things. What has driven them to do it. Oppression? repression? Disspossession? American media does not answer such questions.

Why was an American peace activist, who was intentionally run over by an Israel bulldozer (American made mind you) while protecting a home about to be demoloshed, only mentioned on CNN quick news reels? Such acts, which occur on a daily or hourly basis like the demolotion of Palestinian (in favour of new Israeli settlements) homes have never been shown to Americans by their media. Such acts, and many others have been occuring since the conquering of Palestine, and the foundation of Israel (with the support of U.S. policy). Just an example.

There is definitely a one-sided element to American media. They let you hear and see what they want you to. Pushing their ideals through to coincide with government and military objectives.

CNN and Fox will tell us that this is a war on terror. Good versus evil... West versus East.. I think its the flip side, beyond America's quest to economically control the region, the current war is a war not on terror, but on America's enemies, who also happen to be Israel's enemies.

But it is not only the Americn media. Al Jazeera out of Qatar, isn't exactly reporting straight as well. From what I've heard, most of there media, is anti-American as well. Iraqi media claims that they are winning the war in order to keep morale between soldier and citizen high.

My point is, the path of journalism in the U.S. and other countries seems to parellel government policy. Is that journalism, or government propaganda?
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Old 03-26-2003, 03:47 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon


Blah blah blah. I don't watch O'Reilly, nor am I familiar with his phrases. This is a deflection of the points of what I wrote with character attacks. Nice try, but you're going to have to do better than that. Try again, but, next time, do it on the merits of the substance of my comments.

And if it will make all of you all touchy-feely inside, I'll retract my "And that's a fact." Now, with that retraction, comment on the substance of what I wrote.

Melon
Blah, blah, blah is right. I was just making a funny comment that showed that people on both sides of the issue see their view as fact.

I agree with most of what you wrote before. Al-Jazeera shows things in a more pro-Arab way and U.S. tv shows things in a more pro-U.S. way.

You really should watch O'Reilly sometimes. He can be annoying as hell, because I am an Independent, usually on the liberal side of things. He claims he's an Independent but is usually VERY conservative. So usually if I watch him, it's to see what stupid things he is saying. But there are times very few and far between that he is right on the money. IMO
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Old 03-26-2003, 03:55 PM   #35
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I think the only time I, at least, could respect O'Reilly is when he berated and flustered William Bennett, who was on a tirade about how bad it was to allow gay adoption. O'Reilly called him a "religious fanatic," and Bennett was freaking out, thinking he was talking to a "fellow conservative" who would just agree with him. Good times were had...

Melon
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Old 03-26-2003, 04:00 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
I think the only time I, at least, could respect O'Reilly is when he berated and flustered William Bennett, who was on a tirade about how bad it was to allow gay adoption. O'Reilly called him a "religious fanatic," and Bennett was freaking out, thinking he was talking to a "fellow conservative" who would just agree with him. Good times were had...

Melon

Ha, ha, ha, ha -

That's the stuff I love. that and when he goes OFF about rap music and kids. I think his one crooked eye is going to pop out of his head.
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Old 03-26-2003, 04:28 PM   #37
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Normal that fight was rather entertaining

Quote:
Originally posted by womanfish
That's the stuff I love. that and when he goes OFF about rap music and kids. I think his one crooked eye is going to pop out of his head.

I love when he goes off about the kids. Oyeah, just makes my life complete. His claims are so accurate and based on so many facts. I can totally see his point of view. In fact, I can't wait until I'm his age so I can whine about the kids and never do anything about it too.


Oh if only I could age 25 years overnight.....
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Old 03-26-2003, 04:38 PM   #38
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Originally posted by womanfish
But let me ask you this - In past wars, if there was heavy fighting on the front lines, our news reports would pretty much all come from military spokespeople and then written up or reported by journalists. Now, even though they will still have military influence on the, Don't you think we are still going to get a more objective report from somone who is right there on the scene?
in one sense, yes. we have gained in that respect. but the viewer is now made to believe that they see everything when in fact, the military has very specific control over what is seen by the correspondent.

it will take much research in the coming time to answer this question with anything near certainty.

you alluded to it earlier...there are presently as many as 100 foreign correspondents who have embed positions with the coalition. amongst them is an al-jazeera journalist.
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Old 03-26-2003, 05:04 PM   #39
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Well...this was an interesting discussion
and I think, as usually seems to be the case, Melon put it best

Here in Canada there is a big difference. I thing there is more of the picture seen, but that is my opinion. Not only do we see non-critical looks at military briefings from the White House and Quatar, and the stories of embedded journalists. We also see interviews with iraqis in Canada, documentaries on iraqi citizens. I was actually shocked when they interview one Iraqi nuclear scienctist living here in Canada. He was VERY angry with the US, I thought they would cut him off.
But it's alright to have that extreme view and then bring in the opposite extreme view. It makes me more confident that I'm getting a larger picture.

Anyway, it's a topic I've always been interested in. We know the US was partaking in BLATEN propaganda during the cold war...just as bad as what the Iraqi info. minister is doing now....I don't see why people like Womanfish should get angry if someone alludes to the possibility that such propaganda as seen in the 60's is still ongoing.
I mean...yes, there are embedded journalists..but we only see what the gov't wants us to see. Same way they edit survivor to make some look bad and some good....it's real TV but it's skewed.

and just so you know....I don't think the US is using such extreme propaganda this time as 30 or 40 years ago...
however, time will tell. 20 years from now who knows what we will be saying about this war.
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Old 03-26-2003, 06:53 PM   #40
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A friend of mine calls CNN "Censored Network News". Fox is a joke. I won't watch it. There were reports last night that Iraqi TV had been knocked off the air. It's no wonder the military is trying to knock TV off. It's a propaganda tool all over. No doubt there is some real going on that we're not seeing because it's well,
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Old 03-26-2003, 07:10 PM   #41
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The word propaganda is being thrown around with great gusto. Looking back over history, is the level of "propaganda" or censorship in the US anywhere near what it was in WWII, Vietnam or Gulf War I?

Secondly, what do you expect in coverage? Is there such a thing as pure factual coverage, or is this simply a cry for hearing news in terms that match one's beliefs or position on the war?


I won't address Iraq's Ministry of "Information".
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Old 03-27-2003, 03:04 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
The word propaganda is being thrown around with great gusto. Looking back over history, is the level of "propaganda" or censorship in the US anywhere near what it was in WWII, Vietnam or Gulf War I?
I think that the term propaganda is used a little too loosely here. Yes, there is propaganda on both sides, coming from the government (the military debriefings in front of the camera's, the constant press conferences by Rumsfeld, in general everything shown by Iraqi television). But I would not call many reports by CNN, Fox or Al-Jazeera propaganda. In my eyes, propaganda comes from a government, not from a news station.

Quote:
Secondly, what do you expect in coverage? Is there such a thing as pure factual coverage, or is this simply a cry for hearing news in terms that match one's beliefs or position on the war?
I think this more represents the point of this thread. There is colored news reporting. However, this is always the case, if only because it comes from someone's point of view. Thus, CNN, Fox, etc. report from an US point of view (one maybe more pro-government than the other), while Al-Jazeera reports from an Arab point of view (as pointed out earlier).
As nbcrusader mentions in his post, many watch the news from a source that matches one's beliefs. There's no point for a liberal to watch the news from a very conservative source, if only to get irritated. However, one should keep in mind the position of the source.

The truth is out there

(somewhere I think)

C ya!

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Old 03-27-2003, 05:04 AM   #43
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Fox News - I don't know whether to laugh or cry. It's pathetic.
Closest thing to balanced and informed is the BBC or Sky News channels. The American ones have the best 'front line' footage, but they're News Entertainment channels, not News Information channels - I don't think its propaganda, I think it's because they are competing for ratings too much, forgeting what they are really there for.

But yes, I certainly agree it's alot better then it could be, from everyone, and it's good they are letting the reporters right in there. Interesting that the first non-Iraqi casualty of the war was a reporter.
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Old 03-27-2003, 01:03 PM   #44
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Secondly, what do you expect in coverage? Is there such a thing as pure factual coverage, or is this simply a cry for hearing news in terms that match one's beliefs or position on the war?
This line is blurred. You could just report the facts of what is going on in the battlefields, but there are two things going on here. First, these facts are coming from military personel a lot of the times, so unless it's seen firsthand you are going to have some bias in the fact telling. But second and the most disturbing is the twisted delivery of these facts. Here's a couple of examples(and I'll use Fox because they are the most obvious at it, but they all do this to an extent.)

When news broke about the grenede going off in the commanding tent Fox jumped on this story and started throwing around the term "terrorist attack" like it was going out of style. They continued to call it a terrorist attack until confirmed otherwise, when all they had to do is report that a grenede had gone off and no one knows any specifics yet. (This would be real news reporting). Another one I saw was yesterday during lunch where Fox just had this bold tag line at the bottom of the screen that read nothing but; IRAQIS HAVE NO REGARD FOR HUMAN LIFE. I couldn't believe my eyes. This is the shit that discusts me, and it's happening all over. And where it may not be directly from the government, the government had everything to do with keeping the fear elevated to high enough levels that people were duct taping their windows and throwing the term "terrorist" around like it was the new en vougue catch phrase. So yes in my opinion it is propaganda.

THE CARTOON NETWORK TURNS INTO THE NEWS...
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Old 03-27-2003, 01:25 PM   #45
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Another one I saw was yesterday during lunch where Fox just had this bold tag line at the bottom of the screen that read nothing but; IRAQIS HAVE NO REGARD FOR HUMAN LIFE. I couldn't believe my eyes.
Well you shouldn't have believed your eyes because you are wrong. I saw the same line at the bottom of the screen and it was a quote by a Coalition Military official which was clearly stated. I admit it is an inflamitory statement, but it was given after the latest airing from Al Jazeera of two dead soldiers that were being kicked around in the street. This was a quote, not a "tag line" just put out there by Fox.
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