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Old 03-28-2006, 05:19 PM   #31
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Re: Re: Proof of Bush's Lies

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Originally posted by Maoilbheannacht


1. I don't see where it says Bush and Blair knew there were no WMD in Iraq. Every intelligence agency around the world had information that there was WMD in Iraq, regardless of the fact that Inspectors had yet to find any in the months before the war or after.


My bad. The articles stated, "The memo also shows that the president and the prime minister acknowledged that no unconventional weapons had been found inside Iraq, The Times noted." I interpreted "unconventional weapons" as WMD's.


Quote:
2. Considering all the things that Saddam was still in violation of, thats probably true, unless Saddam solved those problems and or left the country. But everyone knew this at the time.


Yes, but Bush had basically delcared war on Saddam and Iraq well before he truly had reason. Saddam committed many UN violations, but even the UN disagreed with the U.S. on starting a war!! Yet, per this article, Bush didn't care what the UN thought. That says a lot.

Quote:
3. The planes are already on a UN mission and its illegal for Saddam to fire at the planes. I don't see how painting the planes with UN markers makes any difference.


My understanding is that if Saddam fired on a UN plane (even a fake one) - where were on a UN mission, then that justifies going to war. In other words, Bush was essentially going to taunt Saddam until he broke. It's like a bully, picking on a little kid in the playground until one day that little kid finally snaps and fights back - but it's the little kid who gets in trouble for fighting, not the bully! So don't lose focus - Bush wanted to do this so he could provoke an attack and thereby justify a war. He wanted to trick the world.

Quote:
Is the Memo considered to be an actual transcript of what was said or is it just a general summery?
Well, the Yahoo article is a summary, but it's giving quotes from the real NY Times article, which apparently quotes directly from the memo.
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Old 03-28-2006, 05:38 PM   #32
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Funny how the world talks about democracy yet the very institution which allows every country in the world to have a say isn't a democracy since 5 countries have veto power. Hmm, and many times these 5 countries act against the wishes of the majority.

And yeah, Bush and his cronies had to SELL the war to the US which is why we have 3-5 reasons for the war now.
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Old 03-28-2006, 08:08 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by AliEnvy


So which is worse then, Clinton using his position of power for sex or Bush using his position of power to propogate American imperialism to the point of national self-destruction?
They are two separate problems in and of themselves.

I fail to see how or why one would equate them with each other, unless one was trying to make a political attack on one party or the other.

Clinton was impeached by Democrats and Republicans. He won the trial as he should have.



Bush did what he thought was the correct thing to do for the country. I think he went about it the wrong way. I think the problems that we have today in Iraq are largely because they did not handle themselves correctly leading up to the war. I still think the war was the right thing to do in this case.

I made my case for war here and do not have the time to articluate it here now. Summary version.

We created an enemy because of the 1st Gulf War. Our presence in the region brought the eyes of Al-Qaeda upon us.

We could not leave because Saddam was in power for 12 years violating UN resolutions.

We had to remove him and change the face of the middle east so that hopefully we can leave there in the next ten years.

This administration did not have the intestinal fortutude to present the truthful case on the issue to the American public, so they presented the case that people could most relate to after 9/11, WMD.

Impeachable, no, dishonest, possibly.
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Old 03-28-2006, 08:14 PM   #34
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Re: Re: Proof of Bush's Lies

Quote:
Originally posted by Maoilbheannacht
[B]

1. I don't see where it says Bush and Blair knew there were no WMD in Iraq. Every intelligence agency around the world had information that there was WMD in Iraq, regardless of the fact that Inspectors had yet to find any in the months before the war or after.
True....

The French, Russian, and GERMAN intelligence all said that he had the stuff.

German intelligence put him at aquiring nucelar capabilities by 2007.

The fact is, as I hypothesized in this forum, just before the war broke, that the Iraqi governement was pretending to have the stuff.

[Q]2. Considering all the things that Saddam was still in violation of, thats probably true, unless Saddam solved those problems and or left the country. But everyone knew this at the time.[/Q]

Considering that the UN, because of the corruption with the food for oil program, was never going to do anything, it is no wonder that he kept violating resolution after resolution for 14 years.
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Old 03-28-2006, 08:30 PM   #35
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Proof of Bush's Lies

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Actually, the fact that Clinton lied under oath is a big deal BUT it was about a consensual act between two adults which made it totally ridiculous. And looking back on it from a outside POV, it looks remarkably bizarre to see how much Clinton had to go through over a BJ.
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The difference is that Clinton made his mistake with an act of sex that didn't hurt anyone.

Quote:

...all they could come up with was some sexual indiscretions and inconclusive evidence on Whitewater.
I think we may have forgotten what the impeachment was predicated on: "Clinton had previously been dogged by allegations of sexual misconduct, most notably in regard to a relationship with singer and former Arkansas state employee Gennifer Flowers and an encounter with Arkansas state employee Paula Jones in a Little Rock hotel room in which Jones claimed that Clinton had exposed himself to her. These affairs occurred during Clinton's term as Arkansas governor. Lewinsky's name actually surfaced during legal proceedings connected to the latter matter, when Jones' lawyers sought corroborating evidence of Clinton's conduct to substantiate Jones' allegations. Clinton denied having sexual intercourse with Lewinsky while under oath."
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Old 03-28-2006, 08:33 PM   #36
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Proof of Bush's Lies

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Originally posted by redsox04


I think we may have forgotten what the impeachment was predicated on: "Clinton had previously been dogged by allegations of sexual misconduct, most notably in regard to a relationship with singer and former Arkansas state employee Gennifer Flowers and an encounter with Arkansas state employee Paula Jones in a Little Rock hotel room in which Jones claimed that Clinton had exposed himself to her. These affairs occurred during Clinton's term as Arkansas governor. Lewinsky's name actually surfaced during legal proceedings connected to the latter matter, when Jones' lawyers sought corroborating evidence of Clinton's conduct to substantiate Jones' allegations. Clinton denied having sexual intercourse with Lewinsky while under oath."
If those seeking to make a negative political statement acknowledge this, then, there would be no negative political statement.
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Old 03-28-2006, 09:52 PM   #37
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bush
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Old 03-28-2006, 09:56 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
bush
will
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But does this mean anything?

No

But to so many, it doesn't matter.
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Old 03-28-2006, 09:57 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
bush
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hey diamond ...
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Old 03-28-2006, 11:02 PM   #40
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wink

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hey diamond ...
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Old 03-28-2006, 11:18 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox

They are two separate problems in and of themselves.

I fail to see how or why one would equate them with each other, unless one was trying to make a political attack on one party or the other.

Clinton was impeached by Democrats and Republicans. He won the trial as he should have.
Oh I know, someone earlier had posed a similar comparison and I thought it was you but didn't go back to look, my bad. The only thing comparable about the 2 situations is that they both lied.


Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox

Bush did what he thought was the correct thing to do for the country. I think he went about it the wrong way.
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Old 03-28-2006, 11:36 PM   #42
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he's being taught by the best.
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Old 03-28-2006, 11:48 PM   #43
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Are you trying to say women are liars?
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Old 03-28-2006, 11:55 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


are you trying to tell me you have nice thighs?
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Old 03-29-2006, 08:39 AM   #45
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No, diamond just likes Bush's moose knuckle

Isn't that Sarah Hughes?
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