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Old 06-16-2004, 02:04 PM   #1
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Probe rules out Iraq-9/11 links

BBC News:

Quote:
The commission investigating the 11 September 2001 attacks on the US has found no "credible evidence" that Iraq helped al-Qaeda carry them out.
So can we still talk about the war in Iraq as a part of the War on terrorism?

And other interesting points:

Quote:
Report's other findings:

# Late 1980s: al-Qaeda founded; early 1990s: centralised organisation following Bin Laden's orders.

# Bin Laden did not fund al-Qaeda through a personal fortune - it relied on a fundraising network.

# There is no convincing evidence that any government financially supported al-Qaeda before the 11 September attacks.

# Bin Laden assisted Somali warlords fighting the Americans.

# No "credible evidence" that Iraq and al-Qaeda co-operated on attacks against the US.

# Bin Laden role in WTC attacks in 1993 and a failed plot to blow up commercial aircraft in 1994 in Manila, Philippines are "uncertain".

# 1996: In Afghanistan, Bin Laden makes public his war against the US.

# Bin Laden cemented ties with the Taleban with Pakistani support.

# Early 1998: al-Qaeda merges with Ayman Zawahiri's Egyptian Islamic Jihad.

# The 1998 attacks on US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania "were planned, directed, and executed by al-Qaeda, under the direct supervision of Bin Laden and his chief aides".

# Bin Laden remained willing to provide support to attacks initiated by more independent actors.

# Al-Qaeda's funding has "decreased significantly", and the organisation is "far more decentralised", now that Bin Laden has lost his Afghan base.

# Al-Qaeda remains extremely interested in conducting chemical, biological, radiological, or nuclear attacks.
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Old 06-16-2004, 02:20 PM   #2
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Re: Probe rules out Iraq-9/11 links

Quote:
Originally posted by Klaus

The commission investigating the 11 September 2001 attacks on the US has found no "credible evidence" that Iraq helped al-Qaeda carry them out.
bu, but ... that's not what Dick Cheney is saying!

http://www.registerguard.com/news/20...eney.0615.html

And the President agrees with him:

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/wa...sein_al_qaeda/

So the 9/11 commission must be wrong because we know that the President and the Vice President would never intentionally mislead the American people. Right?
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Old 06-16-2004, 02:21 PM   #3
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But surely you jest.

Just last night our esteemed Vice-President told his fundraising audience there were clear ties between Iraq and Alqaeda.
In the words of Joe Pesci - LIAR
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Old 06-16-2004, 02:31 PM   #4
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Nice to see that the liberal media is complicit with the administration's agenda.

From a White House press conference yesterday:

Quote:
Go ahead, Jeff. You had one.

Q Thanks. Why hasn't the administration made more of the U.N. inspectors' report that says Saddam Hussein was dismantling his missile and WMD sites before and during the war? And doesn't that, combined with the now proven al Qaeda link between Iraq -- between Saddam Hussein and the terrorist organization -- unequivocally make the case for going to war in Iraq?

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, I think in terms of Iraq and ties to terrorism, Secretary Powell outlined the former regime's support for and ties to terrorists when he went before the United Nations. Director Tenet has testified in open session before Congress about what we know about those ties. You heard the President talk about some of those ties earlier today in the Rose Garden when he was asked a question. So I think those ties are well known, and we have talked about them previously.

Certainly, when you look at someone like al Zarqawi, he was an individual who was in Iraq prior to the decision to go to war, and he is someone who remains in Iraq. And he is a senior al Qaeda associate.

Q Is that why you went to war?

MR. McCLELLAN: And -- Helen, I think we spelled out our reasons why we went to war.

Q I think you did.

MR. McCLELLAN: And certainly ties between the regime --

Q There were weapons of mass destruction.

MR. McCLELLAN: -- ties between the regime and terrorism was a very serious concern.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0615-7.html#13

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Old 06-16-2004, 02:47 PM   #5
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ThatGuy: you're right of course, the President and the Vice President would never intentionally mislead the American people therefore this commission tries to misslead the American people and traitors like these men must be punished
Did i get it right this time?
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Old 06-16-2004, 02:55 PM   #6
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Yes, absolutely.
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Old 06-16-2004, 02:57 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Klaus
ThatGuy: you're right of course, the President and the Vice President would never intentionally mislead the American people therefore this commission tries to misslead the American people and traitors like these men must be punished
Did i get it right this time?
Yes, I hope we prosecute these traitorous members of the 9/11 commission to the fullest extent of the law! Actually, if the power to overrule law is inherent in the power of the Presidency, then maybe we can go beyond the bounds of the law, if you know what I mean.

Seriously, though. Bush and Cheney testified in front of the 9/11 commission. I would think that at that time they would have presented their evidence of Iraq-al-Qaeda links, since they wouldn't want to withhould eveidence from an investigatory body. Since the 9/11 commission concluded that there was no credible evidence of a link, then logically one of the following must be true.

1. The eveidence that Bush and Cheney presented to the 9/11 commission regarding an Iraq-al-Qaeda connection were not credible.

2. Bush and Cheney are lying.
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Old 06-16-2004, 03:08 PM   #8
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or 3. they didn't tell the comission about the links because they were too sectret and a matter of national security?

anyway i wonder why so many people are still willing to trust these men

Did Bush and Cheney tell the public why they had to testify together?
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Old 06-16-2004, 03:09 PM   #9
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Ties with terrorists and aiding in the 9/11 attacks are two different things.
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Old 06-16-2004, 03:16 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Klaus
or 3. they didn't tell the comission about the links because they were too sectret and a matter of national security?

anyway i wonder why so many people are still willing to trust these men

Did Bush and Cheney tell the public why they had to testify together?
Well I discount #3 because they testified behind closed doors. If they had something secret to say they had nothing stopping them.

Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Ties with terrorists and aiding in the 9/11 attacks are two different things.
You're right, but Cheney calimed that Iraq had "long-established ties" to al-Qaeda. Too often the administration has tried to make the link indirectly by mentioning Saddam's "links" to al-Qaeda and then raising the spectre of the 9/11 attacks.

Plus, you have to wonder, if Saddam and al-Qaeda were tight, then why wouldn't Saddam help them carry out their biggest ever attack on the Great Satan? I realize that's speculation, but it's not such a crazy question.

Edited to add: this from a Washington Post article about the commission's report.:
Quote:
In an overview of al Qaeda released in a separate report earlier this morning, the commission also found "no credible evidence" that al Qaeda collaborated with Saddam Hussein's government in Iraq on the Sept. 11 strikes or any other attacks on the United States.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Jun16.html
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Old 06-16-2004, 03:57 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Klaus
or 3. they didn't tell the comission about the links because they were too sectret and a matter of national security?

Yes, that is it.

They are so "top secret" only Cheney can know them.

Bush believes him without any evidence.

Why can't you?

Do you want Saddam back in power?

Whose side are you on?

Saddam tortured people and took over the oil fields for his own purposes, don't you remember?

We can't let those kind of things happen again.
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Old 06-17-2004, 04:05 AM   #12
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deep:
Obviousely i'm not with him so..
..well erm... see ya in Guantanamo Bay

nbcrusader:
Well if he "just" supported the palestinensian president Arafat i'm affraid the EU is also a supporter of terrorism, i'm glad that Mr. President didn't lead the American people to believe that the EU supported 9/11
And if it's all about supporting terrorism a long time ago he should look at his own country.

So i think we shouldn't waste our time in the war against terrorism and remember imminent threats
Quote:
# Al-Qaeda remains extremely interested in conducting chemical, biological, radiological, or nuclear attacks.
And i think that because of the latest Iraq war chances increased dramatically that a-quaida now has WMD.
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Old 06-17-2004, 04:59 AM   #13
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I think that Bush never said that there were Saddam to 9/11 links.

It is a fact that Saddam Hussein supported terrorism and flaunted this overtly.

It is a fact that Al Qaeda and Iraqi Intelligence did have meetings however the extent of linkage is still undetermined.

The Casus Beli for war was that Saddam had not complied with UN resolutions and since the war this has been proven to be true, hence the war was perfectly legal.

Iraq is now better off than it was before the war and the world is going to be safer if we have a sweeping shift in the way affairs in the ME work.
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Old 06-17-2004, 05:27 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
I think that Bush never said that there were Saddam to 9/11 links.
That's true he just talked about Saddam supporting terrorism and 9/11 terrorism so that many US citizens were lead to the false asumtion that Saddam was responsible for 9/11.
If you look at the polls during the Iraq invasion you see that more people believed that Saddam was responsible for 9/11 than al-quaida/UBL

Quote:
It is a fact that Saddam Hussein supported terrorism and flaunted this overtly.
Yes, so did the US government so did the EU

Quote:
It is a fact that Al Qaeda and Iraqi Intelligence did have meetings however the extent of linkage is still undetermined.
It's also a fact that UBL had meetings with US Inteligence

Quote:
The Casus Beli for war was that Saddam had not complied with UN resolutions and since the war this has been proven to be true, hence the war was perfectly legal.
Right, but i want to talk about the War on Terror in this thread, not about if the Iraqi invasion was legal or just

Quote:
Iraq is now better off than it was before the war and the world is going to be safer if we have a sweeping shift in the way affairs in the ME work.
There are MANY things which are better because of this war there are some countries which are safer because of this war but I doubt that that the world is going to be safer because of this war. Maybe huge amounts of WMDs got into the hand of al-quaida because of this invasion.
Maybe because of that a terrorist strike with WMDs against the US is possible now.
Al-quaida is now also much stronger in iraq than before this war.
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Old 06-17-2004, 06:01 AM   #15
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Al Qaeda has poured its resources into Iraq therefore if we suceed there it will have exausted a lot of its structure thus giving us a victory in the war on terror, it is also important to remember that we still have other states that sponser terrorism and possess such weapons, key here are Syria, Iran and Pakistan. We must work on all fronts to disarm all these regimes through all means at out disposal.

The postwar situation in Iraq and the WoT are now closely entwined and must be won. We need to analyse the way these battles are being waged and come up with a strong and united front in mutal agreement, there is a very real risk that partisan politics will cost lives in any western nation. If Bush looses the election and Kerry is not given a proper lead in before his inauguration there will be a solid 2 months in which terrorists could strike a politically readjusting country.

The world will be safer when we wipe Islamic Terrorism from the face of the earth, it is a scourge of the modern world that must be stopped. The only way to do this is to fix the problems that drive their support base (a lasting Palestinian state, a free Iraq and Stable ME) while at the same time fighting them on every front (Iraq, Afghanistan millitarily, intelligence operations over SE Asia and Europe as well as support for usefull client regimes - Pakistan) as well as on the diplomatic front (encouraging disarment in Iran and Pakistan). We cannot drop the ball or loose sight of our objectives in the war on terrorism as failure to so would doom humanity, we are at a point where men who are willing to use nuclear weapons are able to obtain them, destroying any rogue regime that seeks to obtain such technology is the only way to guarantee victory. I would rather have an attack with nerve gas that kills 200 people because of invading Iraq than leave saddam in power and have a nuclear attack in 10 years that kills 200,000.
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