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Old 05-20-2004, 06:44 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scarletwine

I know many of you think the Guardian is biased
...

Astonishingly, the secret inquiry launched by the US military in January, headed by Major General Antonio Taguba, has confirmed that the letter smuggled out of Abu Ghraib by a woman known only as "Noor" was entirely and devastatingly accurate.
...
Doesn't sound like a bias to me--sounds like a fact. Thank you for sharing this. It's all so hard to take in.
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Old 05-20-2004, 07:51 PM   #92
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OMG this is sooo depressing.
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Old 05-21-2004, 10:32 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


What do you expect out of the CIA? Should they mail nice questionnaires and build terrorist reports based on the responses?

There is a dark underside to the intelligence community - one that has existed for decades, if not centuries. One that makes us sick to acknowledge, but we are DAMN happy when they produce the results we want.

So, I guess I'd like to know exactly how you would like the CIA to work.
Go on, promote torture, it goes very well with a christian superiour culture,...
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Old 05-21-2004, 10:34 AM   #94
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A nice party is going on,...dragg the prisoner seems very popular,...


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...052104-1vv.htm
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Old 05-21-2004, 11:27 AM   #95
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As a soldier who was trained to NOT TREAT prisoners this way I am speechless at what I am reading and seeing on a daily basis.

I took my training and the Geneva Convention seriously when I was taught to process POW's.

Is it possible this administration is so desparate to find WMD that this has been allowed? I do not know. I do not understand how we have come to this place as a soldier and as a human being.
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Old 05-21-2004, 02:42 PM   #96
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I have a theory here. I suspect this time of stuff has gone on in every war, at all times, by all countries, even after the Geneva convention. But only now, when a country as high profile as the US in involved, with pictures and videos taken and with the advent of the world wide web they get spread around a lot more, so we know about it and see it whereas those in the past did not.


Not that it is okay by anyone of course.
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Old 05-21-2004, 04:08 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rono
it goes very well with a christian superiour culture,...
I don't know why Christianity has to be brought into this-no Christian I know would EVER engage in or condone this sort of abhorrent behavior. I don't see what that has to do w/ this topic at all

I understand that everyone here is free to express his/her opinion, but it gets tiring seeing Christianity constantly being brought up in a negative manner (and in what I feel are sometimes irrelevant instances, and I won't say anymore about that).

generalizations like that are unfair
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Old 05-21-2004, 04:32 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen


I don't know why Christianity has to be brought into this-no Christian I know would EVER engage in or condone this sort of abhorrent behavior. I don't see what that has to do w/ this topic at all

I understand that everyone here is free to express his/her opinion, but it gets tiring seeing Christianity constantly being brought up in a negative manner (and in what I feel are sometimes irrelevant instances, and I won't say anymore about that).

generalizations like that are unfair
You are RIGHT on TARTGET
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Old 05-21-2004, 04:44 PM   #99
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I think Rono is misguided to generalise about Christian culture. It would be just as misguided to generalise about Muslim culture in the same way. As if all Muslims supported the beheading of Nicholas Berg.

On the other hand, I think it is fair to ask NB to elaborate on his post. Is the torture justified to "produce the results we want?"

I don't think he believes that.

I thought we were working towards something better.
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Old 05-21-2004, 04:58 PM   #100
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See, now this would make a great debate. In this case, from the readings I have done, the people in this prison had not ever even attacked US soldiers. Now if that is true, I would say NO torture is not justified.

If it were a known member of Al-Qaeda I may have a different reaction.
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Old 05-21-2004, 05:41 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen


I don't know why Christianity has to be brought into this-no Christian I know would EVER engage in or condone this sort of abhorrent behavior. I don't see what that has to do w/ this topic at all

I understand that everyone here is free to express his/her opinion, but it gets tiring seeing Christianity constantly being brought up in a negative manner (and in what I feel are sometimes irrelevant instances, and I won't say anymore about that).

generalizations like that are unfair
Hmmm, i mean western culture,....what happend to be formed by christian religion.
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Old 05-21-2004, 05:44 PM   #102
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In defense of Rono's comment...while it's true that we should all be careful to not make generalizations, I think his point is that (and correct me if I'm wrong, Rono) Bush has consistently used language with regard to this war that leads many people, myself included, to believe that for him this is a religious crusade. The US military is there to 'rid the world of evil' while itself practicing evil.
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Old 05-21-2004, 05:45 PM   #103
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oops, we posted about the same time

and I see my interpretation of Rono's comments were basically a projection of my own beliefs
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Old 05-21-2004, 07:33 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rono
Hmmm, i mean western culture,....what happend to be formed by christian religion.
...the Christian religion which happens to be based on the teachings of Jesus. Darn that Jesus, always going after those Muslims, feeling superior and all.
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Old 05-21-2004, 07:49 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
See, now this would make a great debate. In this case, from the readings I have done, the people in this prison had not ever even attacked US soldiers. Now if that is true, I would say NO torture is not justified.

If it were a known member of Al-Qaeda I may have a different reaction.
Why?

Is Al-Qaeda worse than the Nazi's? Except of course they didn't really attack American civilians only Jews so it is different?

This is where I depart from all the flag waving Americans. My God as I see him, loves every human being on earth and no one's life is worth more than others, including US citizens. So we used the rule of law to prosecute the Nazi's and in my mind Al-Qaeda deserves the same. And to my mind the Taliban are POW's as they were the ruling military unit in Afghanistan.
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