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Old 05-16-2004, 05:21 PM   #76
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http://observer.guardian.co.uk/inter...217973,00.html

US guards 'filmed beatings' at terror camp

Senator urges action as Briton reveals Guantanamo abuse

David Rose and Gaby Hinsliff
Sunday May 16, 2004
The Observer

Dozens of videotapes of American guards allegedly engaged in brutal attacks on Guantanamo Bay detainees have been stored and catalogued at the camp, an investigation by The Observer has revealed.
The disclosures, made in an interview with Tarek Dergoul, the fifth British prisoner freed last March, who has been too traumatised to speak until now, prompted demands last night by senior politicians on both sides of the Atlantic to make the videos available immediately.

They say that if the contents are as shocking as Dergoul claims, they will provide final proof that brutality against detainees has become an institutionalised feature of America's war on terror.
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Old 05-16-2004, 05:36 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally posted by Klaus
Thanks for this Link verte!

I just wanted to add that the Jurnalist who wrote this story, mr Hersh has high reputation, he won the Pulitzer Prize and 4 George Polk Awards.

And to me his story makes sense if you look how important it was for the US that their enemies in Afghanistan were not treated after Geneva Convention but were ranked as i.c. without rights.
You're welcome. I agree, no wonder Bush wanted out of the jurisdiction of the International Court and also his insistence that the prisoners in Guantanomo were i.c. without rights. My parents were telling me that yesterday they were at some suburban type party and people were absolutely up in arms over the scandal. Yes, Americans are outraged!
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Old 05-17-2004, 07:04 PM   #78
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Club Med indeed.

If this was Rwanda or the former YU, we'd slap sanctions on them until they turned over these people to an international tribunal. I guess what's good for the goose isn't good for the gander.
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Old 05-17-2004, 08:27 PM   #79
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When was the last international tribunal that the US pushed for? Is there a history of the US pudhing for international tribunals over the handling of prisoners?

You act as if the US is not doing something about it.

I know we are all frothing at the mouth out there happy that the US is tainted by this, however, let's put it in perspective, we are putting our own on trial which in my opinion separates us from many who have committed crimes like this or worse.
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Old 05-17-2004, 10:00 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
I know we are all frothing at the mouth out there happy that the US is tainted by this, however, let's put it in perspective, we are putting our own on trial which in my opinion separates us from many who have committed crimes like this or worse.

This is very true, minus the frothing at the mouth.
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Old 05-17-2004, 10:24 PM   #81
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Originally posted by Angela Harlem



This is very true, minus the frothing at the mouth.
OK...without the frothing!
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Old 05-18-2004, 06:17 PM   #82
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Yes, no, maybe so?

Quote:
Reuters, NBC Staff Abused by U.S. Troops in Iraq

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - U.S. forces beat three Iraqis working for Reuters and subjected them to sexual and religious taunts and humiliation during their detention last January in a military camp near Falluja, the three said Tuesday.

The three first told Reuters of the ordeal after their release but only decided to make it public when the U.S. military said there was no evidence they had been abused, and following the exposure of similar mistreatment of detainees at Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad.

An Iraqi journalist working for U.S. network NBC, who was arrested with the Reuters staff, also said he had been beaten and mistreated, NBC said Tuesday.

Two of the three Reuters staff said they had been forced to insert a finger into their anus and then lick it, and were forced to put shoes in their mouths, particularly humiliating in Arab culture.
You can find that here.

Best parts I wanted to highlight are:

Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, commander of ground forces in Iraq (news - web sites), said in a letter received by Reuters Monday but dated March 5 that he was confident the investigation had been "thorough and objective" and its findings were sound.

Then they admit that:

The U.S. military never interviewed the three for its investigation.

Hello???
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Old 05-19-2004, 07:46 PM   #83
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http://www.berkeleydaily.org/text/ar...&storyID=18888

It has been implied that I am more anti-American then non-Americans on this board. That is not how I feel. I actually love my country but are becoming more and more disillusioned as I grow older. I also hold my native country and government to the highest standards of human rights and fairness. This may be very idealistic but I think highlighting our wrongs will help us prevent them in the future. SO...

Torture Photos, Videos a Time-Honored CIA Tradition
By PETER DALE SCOTT Pacific News Service (05-18-04)

Shocking visual images have dominated the Iraq news in the past weeks. First, of criminal torture of prisoners by Americans, and then of the beheading of American Nicholas Berg by a group the CIA alleges is headed by the Al Qaeda leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. Many stories have raised the rather absurd question of whether the practice of torture by Americans is an aberration. There is abundant proof, however, that both the abusive interrogation practices and the photographic documentation of them are techniques that the CIA has sanctioned and taught over more than 30 years.

By the way, I've watched the hearing and while MI's are often brought up the questions on the CIA's participation have been badly lacking. I guess since 911 they have been given a free reign.
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Old 05-19-2004, 08:35 PM   #84
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You are no more anti-American than I am anti-French....

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Old 05-20-2004, 01:10 AM   #85
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Say cheese,....




Maybe she can speak french, he is not responding anyway.
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Old 05-20-2004, 03:38 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scarletwine
By the way, I've watched the hearing and while MI's are often brought up the questions on the CIA's participation have been badly lacking. I guess since 911 they have been given a free reign.
What do you expect out of the CIA? Should they mail nice questionnaires and build terrorist reports based on the responses?

There is a dark underside to the intelligence community - one that has existed for decades, if not centuries. One that makes us sick to acknowledge, but we are DAMN happy when they produce the results we want.

So, I guess I'd like to know exactly how you would like the CIA to work.
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Old 05-20-2004, 04:00 PM   #87
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Easy - within international law, our own recognition of the Geneva Convention, and our own constitution.

I think it is bullshit that people think their tactics seemed to have have saved us from "the Communists", or other acts against the US.

They only broke international law in SA and Africa bolstering horrible Dictators (like Saddam).

They should be held to the same standardds as any other gov't agency.

They aren't worth the money we pay them.
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Old 05-20-2004, 06:10 PM   #88
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/women/stor...220673,00.html

I know many of you think the Guardian is biased - probably but the women's picture should be told. Usually female abuse is more 1 on12 and less reported.

The other prisoners

Most of the coverage of abuse at Abu Ghraib has focused on male detainees. But what of the five women held in the jail, and the scores elsewhere in Iraq? Luke Harding reports

Thursday May 20, 2004
The Guardian

The scandal at Abu Ghraib prison was first exposed not by a digital photograph but by a letter. In December 2003, a woman prisoner inside the jail west of Baghdad managed to smuggle out a note. Its contents were so shocking that, at first, Amal Kadham Swadi and the other Iraqi women lawyers who had been trying to gain access to the US jail found them hard to believe.
The note claimed that US guards had been raping women detainees, who were, and are, in a small minority at Abu Ghraib. Several of the women were now pregnant, it added. The women had been forced to strip naked in front of men, it said. The note urged the Iraqi resistance to bomb the jail to spare the women further shame.

Late last year, Swadi, one of seven female lawyers now representing women detainees in Abu Ghraib, began to piece together a picture of systemic abuse and torture perpetrated by US guards against Iraqi women held in detention without charge. This was not only true of Abu Ghraib, she discovered, but was, as she put it, "happening all across Iraq".

In November last year, Swadi visited a woman detainee at a US military base at al-Kharkh, a former police compound in Baghdad. "She was the only woman who would talk about her case. She was crying. She told us she had been raped," Swadi says. "Several American soldiers had raped her. She had tried to fight them off and they had hurt her arm. She showed us the stitches. She told us, 'We have daughters and husbands. For God's sake don't tell anyone about this.'"

Astonishingly, the secret inquiry launched by the US military in January, headed by Major General Antonio Taguba, has confirmed that the letter smuggled out of Abu Ghraib by a woman known only as "Noor" was entirely and devastatingly accurate. While most of the focus since the scandal broke three weeks ago has been on the abuse of men, and on their sexual humilation in front of US women soldiers, there is now incontrovertible proof that women detainees - who form a small but unknown proportion of the 40,000 people in US custody since last year's invasion - have also been abused. Nobody appears to know how many. But among the 1,800 digital photographs taken by US guards inside Abu Ghraib there are, according to Taguba's report, images of a US military policeman "having sex" with an Iraqi woman.

Taguba discovered that guards have also videotaped and photographed naked female detainees. The Bush administration has refused to release other photographs of Iraqi women forced at gunpoint to bare their breasts (although it has shown them to Congress) - ostensibly to prevent attacks on US soldiers in Iraq, but in reality, one suspects, to prevent further domestic embarrassment.

...
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Old 05-20-2004, 06:32 PM   #89
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Originally posted by Scarletwine
Easy - within international law, our own recognition of the Geneva Convention, and our own constitution.
Then everything is okay cause there are lawyers who argue that they are abiding by international law, the Geneva convention and the US Constitution.

Another issue resolved
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Old 05-20-2004, 06:34 PM   #90
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But do the judges think the same?



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