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Old 05-06-2004, 05:23 PM   #31
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I feel really bad for every single honest, decent member of our military right now. Some of these are members of my family. I can't even imagine the horrible feelings they're going through right now. As upset and angry as I am over the whole abuse scandal, I also really feel badly for the honorable men and women in our uniforms, and the British ones as well, who had nothing to do with this shameful mess.
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Old 05-06-2004, 05:52 PM   #32
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Heads are going to roll over this.
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Old 05-06-2004, 06:11 PM   #33
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The BBC has pictures of Rumsfeld in the prison speaking with Janis Karpinski (US Brigadier-General) one month before the abuse. It makes it seem more likely that it is systemic and a part of information gathering. I can't imagine what Gitmo has been like.

I feel awful for the other members of the military in Iraq trying to do the best job possible. This can only lead to more insurgents.
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Old 05-06-2004, 06:55 PM   #34
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Did you read the report...it points to Military Intel directing the MP's to do these things. Military Intel and Civilian Contractors.
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Old 05-06-2004, 07:36 PM   #35
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The Investigating general uses the word SYSTEMIC In the report.
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Old 05-07-2004, 01:15 PM   #36
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The Voice of Civility

Al-Sadr Denounces U.S. Abuse of Prisoners

Quote:
What sort of freedom and democracy can we expect from you when you take such joy in torturing Iraqi prisoners?" said al-Sadr, his shoulders draped with a white coffin shroud symbolizing his readiness for martyrdom.


Al-Sadr demanded that guards who have been charged with abuse be handed over to Iraqis courts for trial and dismissed expressions of outrage and apology from President Bush.


"I tell this to Bush: Your statements are not enough. They (the guards) must be punished in kind," al-Sadr said.
I'm sure four of his supporters were immediately killed, burned, stomped on and hung on the nearest bridge.

Also from the Al-Sadr organization:

Quote:
Meanwhile, one of al-Sadr's senior aides told worshippers in Basra that anyone capturing a female British soldier can keep her as a slave. Waving an assault rifle, Sheik Abdul-Sattar al-Bahadli also said anyone capturing a British soldier will receive about $350 and anyone killing one will receive $150.
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Old 05-07-2004, 02:22 PM   #37
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There's a disturbingly low level of decency being observed by the prison torturers on one hand and Al-Sadr's organization at the same time. It's not making my view of human nature any brighter. Torture, smirks, blood money.........
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Old 05-07-2004, 03:45 PM   #38
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It's a very real possibility that this will cause more violence against our troops.

I watched the Senate hearing and more, much worse pictures and even videos exist and may well come to the public.

I do think that they should have gotten out in front of this when they asked 60 min. to delay the televising. Rummy had not even seen the full disc of pictures himself until last night and hasn't seen the video.
Communication definitely broke down.

The effects to our country are far reaching and devastating.
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Old 05-07-2004, 03:58 PM   #39
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4855930/?GT1=3391

Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., predicted "the worst is yet to come" after Rumsfeld noted that "a lot more" photos and video existed.

"Be on notice. ... If these are released to the public, obviously it's going to make matters worse," Rumsfeld said. "I looked at them last night and they are hard to believe."
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Old 05-07-2004, 04:48 PM   #40
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Originally posted by Scarletwine
The effects to our country are far reaching and devastating.

The prisoner abuse was wrong. The individuals involved should be punished. I've never seen any argument on these points.

The western response to such an incident, however, is very interesting. We are ready to beat ourselves up collectively, even to the point of compensating the prisoners to get rid ouf our guilt. I wonder if there was a similar Iraqi reaction to the killing, mutilating and hanging of the US contractors? Is our reaction out of the norm, is the (lack of) Iraqi reaction out of the norm? Are the differences simply political?
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Old 05-07-2004, 06:15 PM   #41
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You can download the PDF file of the Army report here

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive...1torture1.html

Page 16 starts the description of the abuse.

This will create even more danger for the soldiers over there who would never engage in such horrific acts
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Old 05-08-2004, 01:57 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader



The prisoner abuse was wrong. The individuals involved should be punished. I've never seen any argument on these points.

The western response to such an incident, however, is very interesting. We are ready to beat ourselves up collectively, even to the point of compensating the prisoners to get rid ouf our guilt.
It appears that people may have been murdered and raped.

Compensation just does not cut it.

Americans should feel guilt and shame and not dismiss it.



I have heard America described as a bunch of people sitting in an astrodome shouting "We are the greatest, We're number one".
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Old 05-08-2004, 08:20 AM   #43
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I am about to be even more embarrassed.........I am going to go and puke now.
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Old 05-08-2004, 08:45 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader



The prisoner abuse was wrong. The individuals involved should be punished. I've never seen any argument on these points.

The western response to such an incident, however, is very interesting. We are ready to beat ourselves up collectively, even to the point of compensating the prisoners to get rid ouf our guilt. I wonder if there was a similar Iraqi reaction to the killing, mutilating and hanging of the US contractors? Is our reaction out of the norm, is the (lack of) Iraqi reaction out of the norm? Are the differences simply political?
I think the US reaction is our own. We, conservative and liberal alike, hold ourselves up as a standard of human right's treatment. Even though that has not been the case many times during our history.

I think it is especially hard in that it occured in the context that we were deposing a brutal dictator and then used some of his tactics.

Just my .02
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Old 05-08-2004, 08:52 AM   #45
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I want to know, what kind of dumbass puts a guy on a dog chain and films it? They'd never have been ratted out without evidence. It's like the arsonists who go on burning rampages and film them, have themselves and their voice on the tape and then put the tapes where they will be found. Are they asking to be caught?
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