Prisoners abuse

[verte76]

I feel really bad for every single honest, decent member of our military right now. Some of these are members of my family. I can't even imagine the horrible feelings they're going through right now. As upset and angry as I am over the whole abuse scandal, I also really feel badly for the honorable men and women in our uniforms, and the British ones as well, who had nothing to do with this shameful mess.

 

[najeena]

Heads are going to roll over this.

 

[Scarletwine]

The BBC has pictures of Rumsfeld in the prison speaking with Janis Karpinski (US Brigadier-General) one month before the abuse. It makes it seem more likely that it is systemic and a part of information gathering. I can't imagine what Gitmo has been like.

I feel awful for the other members of the military in Iraq trying to do the best job possible. This can only lead to more insurgents.

 

[Dreadsox]

Did you read the report...it points to Military Intel directing the MP's to do these things. Military Intel and Civilian Contractors.

 

[Dreadsox]

The Investigating general uses the word SYSTEMIC In the report.

 

[nbcrusader]

The Voice of Civility

Al-Sadr Denounces U.S. Abuse of Prisoners

What sort of freedom and democracy can we expect from you when you take such joy in torturing Iraqi prisoners?" said al-Sadr, his shoulders draped with a white coffin shroud symbolizing his readiness for martyrdom.


Al-Sadr demanded that guards who have been charged with abuse be handed over to Iraqis courts for trial and dismissed expressions of outrage and apology from President Bush.


"I tell this to Bush: Your statements are not enough. They (the guards) must be punished in kind," al-Sadr said.

I'm sure four of his supporters were immediately killed, burned, stomped on and hung on the nearest bridge.

Also from the Al-Sadr organization:

Meanwhile, one of al-Sadr's senior aides told worshippers in Basra that anyone capturing a female British soldier can keep her as a slave. Waving an assault rifle, Sheik Abdul-Sattar al-Bahadli also said anyone capturing a British soldier will receive about $350 and anyone killing one will receive $150.

 

[verte76]

There's a disturbingly low level of decency being observed by the prison torturers on one hand and Al-Sadr's organization at the same time. It's not making my view of human nature any brighter. Torture, smirks, blood money.........

 

[Scarletwine]

It's a very real possibility that this will cause more violence against our troops.

I watched the Senate hearing and more, much worse pictures and even videos exist and may well come to the public.

I do think that they should have gotten out in front of this when they asked 60 min. to delay the televising. Rummy had not even seen the full disc of pictures himself until last night and hasn't seen the video.
Communication definitely broke down.

The effects to our country are far reaching and devastating.

 

[joyfulgirl]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4855930/?GT1=3391

Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., predicted "the worst is yet to come" after Rumsfeld noted that "a lot more" photos and video existed.

"Be on notice. ... If these are released to the public, obviously it's going to make matters worse," Rumsfeld said. "I looked at them last night and they are hard to believe."

 

[nbcrusader]

The effects to our country are far reaching and devastating.

The prisoner abuse was wrong. The individuals involved should be punished. I've never seen any argument on these points.

The western response to such an incident, however, is very interesting. We are ready to beat ourselves up collectively, even to the point of compensating the prisoners to get rid ouf our guilt. I wonder if there was a similar Iraqi reaction to the killing, mutilating and hanging of the US contractors? Is our reaction out of the norm, is the (lack of) Iraqi reaction out of the norm? Are the differences simply political?

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

You can download the PDF file of the Army report here

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0505041torture1.html

Page 16 starts the description of the abuse.

This will create even more danger for the soldiers over there who would never engage in such horrific acts

 

[deep]

The prisoner abuse was wrong. The individuals involved should be punished. I've never seen any argument on these points.

The western response to such an incident, however, is very interesting. We are ready to beat ourselves up collectively, even to the point of compensating the prisoners to get rid ouf our guilt.

It appears that people may have been murdered and raped.

Compensation just does not cut it.

Americans should feel guilt and shame and not dismiss it.



I have heard America described as a bunch of people sitting in an astrodome shouting "We are the greatest, We're number one".

 

[Dreadsox]

I am about to be even more embarrassed.........I am going to go and puke now.

 

[Scarletwine]

The prisoner abuse was wrong. The individuals involved should be punished. I've never seen any argument on these points.

The western response to such an incident, however, is very interesting. We are ready to beat ourselves up collectively, even to the point of compensating the prisoners to get rid ouf our guilt. I wonder if there was a similar Iraqi reaction to the killing, mutilating and hanging of the US contractors? Is our reaction out of the norm, is the (lack of) Iraqi reaction out of the norm? Are the differences simply political?

I think the US reaction is our own. We, conservative and liberal alike, hold ourselves up as a standard of human right's treatment. Even though that has not been the case many times during our history.

I think it is especially hard in that it occured in the context that we were deposing a brutal dictator and then used some of his tactics.

Just my .02

 

[BluberryPoptart]

I want to know, what kind of dumbass puts a guy on a dog chain and films it? They'd never have been ratted out without evidence. It's like the arsonists who go on burning rampages and film them, have themselves and their voice on the tape and then put the tapes where they will be found. Are they asking to be caught?

 

[pax]

How sad is it that I heard the words "civilian contractor" and thought that they meant, like, a builder or an electrician or something? Had no idea they were mercenaries.

Again, dumb American. But it does prove something I've said for a long time: being a part of FYM makes you smarter.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I don't see where people are dismissing it..sorry, but I for one won't be painted by the brush of these sickos. I'm outraged by it, and I'm the last person who would "sit in an Astrodome and shout we're number one"

Yes, all Americans are like that..pretty narrowminded approach if you ask me..

It's interesting that many of these soldiers were prison guards back home..frightening

 

[bonosloveslave]

This will create even more danger for the soldiers over there who would never engage in such horrific acts

They will be the ones paying the price unfortunately - I wish these idiots had thought of the danger they'd be putting our captive soldiers in

 

[meegannie]

Job opening: http://cacirecruiting.caci.com/jobp...074bbb3?OpenDocument&Highlight=2,interrogator

Lynndie England, 21, a rail worker's daughter, comes from a trailer park in Fort Ashby, West Virginia, which locals proudly call "a backwoods world".

She faces a court martial, but at home she is toasted as a hero.


At the dingy Corner Club Saloon they think she has done nothing wrong.


"A lot of people here think they ought to just blow up the whole of Iraq," Colleen Kesner said.


"To the country boys here, if you're a different nationality, a different race, you're sub-human. That's the way girls like Lynndie are raised.


"Tormenting Iraqis, in her mind, would be no different from shooting a turkey. Every season here you're hunting something. Over there, they're hunting Iraqis."

http://dailytelegraph.news.com.au/story.jsp?sectionid=1258&storyid=1302907

 

[Angela Harlem]

I want to know, what kind of dumbass puts a guy on a dog chain and films it?

The kind of dumbarse who puts a guy on a chain in the first place. Like the criminal activity of arsonists you mention, it is a trophy. We aren't talking about shame from their points of view, it is pride.

 

[Dreadsox]

The prisoner abuse was wrong. The individuals involved should be punished. I've never seen any argument on these points.

The western response to such an incident, however, is very interesting. We are ready to beat ourselves up collectively, even to the point of compensating the prisoners to get rid ouf our guilt. I wonder if there was a similar Iraqi reaction to the killing, mutilating and hanging of the US contractors? Is our reaction out of the norm, is the (lack of) Iraqi reaction out of the norm? Are the differences simply political?

 

[anitram]

The worst may be yet to come. I saw on NBC today that military officials are now leaking news of unreleased photos and video that show:

US soldiers beating prisoners nearly to death.
Forced sexual acts and rape of female Iraqi prisoners.
Inappropriate acts with dead bodies.

It's not one or two soldiers folks. It's deplorable and sick.

 

[Dreadsox]

[Q]"They raped our women. They killed our kids. So there's hatred between us, the people here, and the people in Iraq," he said, referring to the Shiite Muslims who emigrated and the Sunni Muslims who ruled Iraq under Saddam.

"Anything coming to them would make me happy
[/Q]

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/172421_iraqreax07.html

 

[anitram]

I think that's also deplorable.

In 1991, the Serbs blew up our home, blew up my father's business, blew up one of my cousins to smitherines, blew up my friend's mother to smitherines when she was buying bread at the store, sniped down several of our neighbours, pillaged and burned my grandfather's cottage.

When NATO bombed Serbia in 1998, I didn't sit there joyfully with a bucket of popcorn. Are we human beings or not? Do you want to be like your oppressor or do you strive to be better than them?

I will always choose the latter. I would not wish those things on my worst enemy. Never.

 

[verte76]

Damn. I can't think of a word strong enough for my feelings about this. This is worse than disgusting, sick, or any word like that. I feel sick.

 

[babyman]

words cannot explain...i can't believe it

 

[Klaus]

Dreadsox:

to your commic: Do you think it could be that what happened in mach could be a reaction to how iraqis were treated?
The western world started to trust these people who talked about that for months in April that dosn't mean that the Iraqis didn't know it before us.

How sad is it that I heard the words "civilian contractor" and thought that they meant, like, a builder or an electrician or something? Had no idea they were mercenaries.

You're right, it's a shame that authorities (ab)use our good faith in these authorities.
They use nicer words for bad and horrible things and in the end they can say "hey we told you so"
I read an interesting article about people who work for the republican party just to make the goals of them sound better (like beautiful words for destroying environment) and i guess others do it the same way.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

He is such a sick SOB..

This is no different than what happens at the Skull and Bones initiation, and we're going to ruin people's lives over it, and we're going to hamper our military effort, and then we are going to really hammer them because they had a good time," he said on his radio show.

Limbaugh added: "I'm talking about people having a good time. These people, you ever heard of emotional release? You heard of need to blow some steam off?"

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localn...s/sunday/local_news_04d97a1c371df1020029.html

 

[Scarletwine]

"Taguba testified that tactical control of the Abu Ghraib facility had been taken away from Karpinski and turned over to a military intelligence colonel. Karpinski retained control over other Iraqi prisons in her command, and Taguba conceded that they remained largely free of abuse."

Who is the MI's involved and why haven't they been named? They seem to be able to stay under the radar. He should be charged.

 

[anitram]

And yet we still have people saying Guantanamo is Club Med.

To me, it is very possible that the only difference between Guantanamo and Iraq is that no pictures have yet surfaced from the former. I would not be surprised at all if there are abuses going on.