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Old 05-10-2002, 01:25 AM   #91
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[This message has been edited by U2LA (edited 05-09-2002).]
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Old 05-10-2002, 01:51 AM   #92
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Old 05-10-2002, 02:41 AM   #93
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Miss MacPhisto:

I never said i had all the details,


By making the statements you've made, you certainly ought to have them, or, at least a few.

and its true i cant remember,


You can't remember, or did you just not know in the first place?


and its also true that i dont have the time.


Yet, you have had PLENTY of time to tell us you can't remember and/or don't have the timeto elaborate [/b]

All I'm stating is that i am almost certain that the US government as at least partly responsible for what happened, and that the vast majority of pols are nothing but twisted sick ppl.
Yes, and while we're at it, let's blame the holocaust on the Jews; earthquakes on Southern Californians, and Bill Buckner's error in the World Series on Mookie Wilson.

Again, something to back these statements up would be nice

Thats all i came here to say, not to provide evryone with all the gorey details.
ANY of the details would be closer to the truth.

You can just get off your ass and go find out the truth yourself.

Just like you already have, right?




[This message has been edited by Clark W. Griswold, Jr (edited 05-10-2002).]
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Old 05-10-2002, 10:11 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally posted by Miss MacPhisto:
And I agree wholeheartedly with your last statement.
But as far as Arun is concerned, I do believe that it is perfectly fine for me to introduce statements he made to me prior to Sept 11th.
I couldnt believe it when i talked to him and he actually supported military action torwards Osama and Co. I was stunned. And I dunno about his sincerity at all: "I say a lot of things".
And i dont find an America Appreciation thread to be "brave" post Sept 11th - Everyone is babbling about how much they love it here now. Thats...nice, but...

Anyway, as I said, if you dont care about the people in this country, then you do not love this country.


[This message has been edited by Miss MacPhisto (edited 05-09-2002).]
OK...this is it...


Just because I value peace, and don't believe that the american military should place lives at risk by performing police operations everywhere doesn't mean I'm against the war on terrorism. And anytime your pro american in FYM your likely to get your balls chopped off.

and to say that I dont' love the american ppl...is ludicrous. Number 1 you are not a qualified source to determine what MY emotions are and second NO ONE gave you the right to determine what patriotism is and isn't. Why don't you let me determine what my feeelings are and express them how I choose.

and to say I dont' care about the needy in america?????

prior to september 11th I have said that the military budget should be trimmed to take care of the needy in america. Post september 11th that sacrifice cannot be made ( though I think the military should be a bit less wasteful with it's money).


My track record on this forum and to anyone that actually listens to me is clear. "oh arun said this, arun that" this thread isn't even about me to begin with.

You;ve expressed what some would consider anti american views in this thread..you dont' see me attacking your love of this country.




[This message has been edited by Arun V (edited 05-10-2002).]
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Old 05-10-2002, 11:38 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally posted by Miss MacPhisto:
Its easy really. When you encounter a certain type of person, and evry person of that type that you meet, read, or hear about is a certain way, than you can pretty much assume that most of them are that way.
Thus, if the vast majority of pols are worthless I'll just go right ahead and put the figure at 99%.
Oh, and 80s, you didnt answer my question. How has the guy who goes to your church changed lives. how does he help people on a regular basis?
If you went up to people who formerly lived a hellish life, and/or lived in poverty, in the bad part of town, etc etc, and asked them who had made a positive difference in their lives, would they really name some people in government?!?! Would they really name Bush, Cheney, the dude from your church, etc??
[This message has been edited by Miss MacPhisto (edited 05-09-2002).]
So, how many politicians have you met? I can't believe the number would be so high as to enable you to say that 99% of all politicians are twisted, sick people (by the way, the amount of sick twisted politicians is going down, you originally had the number of politicians that don't care about people at 100%).
Now, about that guy from my church...has he ever worked at a soup line? I do not know. But I do know that he cares about people...I see that in his daily life. I also know that he gives money to good causes. I don't know what volunteer work he has done or does at this moment. I know that he tells people about Christ. As for the other things, that's between himself and God. What is the standard that you have set for "caring about people"?
You know, I don't know how people who live in an impoverished life would answer the questions "Who has helped you?" I would suspect they would say a local minister or volunteer or family member. But what does that mean, if they don't say George W. Bush or Dick Cheney? Does that mean that those two don't car about people? how can you make that leap of logic? It doesn't follow.
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Old 05-10-2002, 11:41 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally posted by Miss MacPhisto:
I know my statement is insulting. Thats what its intended to do. I dont mind insulting criminals, which most pols are, in one way or another.
So you named a few. So that still means, what, 99% of pols dont do shit for anyone other than themselves, and their friends.
99% is close enough for me to make a broad statement like that.
It's really too bad that you believe this. Hopefully something someday will make you change your mind. Your above statements (and your other comments on the subject) are as unfair and inaccurate as any racist comment. Maybe less offensive, or more acceptable in our society, but just as misguided. From your statements, I think it's safe for me to assume that I've talked to more politicians than you have, that I have known more of them personally as well. I've met some that seem like bad guys, rotten to the core. Seriously. But I'll tell you that in my experience they've been a very small minority, more so than the general population, probably. There are politicians out there that I can't stand, that I totally disagree with on most political issues, who I'm convinced care genuinely, as much as you or I, for the American people. I know I won't convice you that there are a ton of politician that care about people, but hopefully some day you'll take the time to meet some politicians, and I think your mind will be changed. I believe that the heart is more important than just actions, and you'll only get that through meeting someone, but if actions are what you are interested in, here's a handful of facts:
(some of this info is a few years old)
In 1995 alone, Rep. Pat Schroeder gave $35,000 to 30 Colorado charities.
Some members -- like Reps. Steve Largent, Jim Talent and Andrea Seastrand -- donate 5 percent to 10 percent of their income directly to needy individuals without taking a tax deduction.
Palmer House for Children in Columbus, Miss., the Country Life School in Piney Woods, Miss., the Baldwin House Soup Kitchen in Pontiac, Mich., the Burton Manor Seniors' Center in Livonia, Mich., the Queen of the Valley Hospital in West Covina, Calif., and the City of Hope in Duarte, Calif. -- these are some of the groups supported by Sen. Trent Lott and Reps. Joe Knollenberg and David Dreier.
Here's a quote from a politician made while he was stating his committment to push for a 50% increase in foreign aid from his government: "We cannot leave behind half of humanity as we seek a better future for ourselves. We cannot accept permanent poverty in a world of progress. There are no second-class citizens in the human race." Maybe the people receiving that aid won't give that politician credit when asked who made a positive difference in their lives, but that doesn't mean he didn't care about them.

Like Dano said earlier in this thread, we elect who we are. Some people care a lot about others, some people don't care much. I think you'll find that politicians are that way, as are teachers, steel-workers, CEO's, and homeless people.
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Old 05-10-2002, 12:06 PM   #97
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Originally posted by U2LA:
I stopped reading this around the time people started attacking each other as they often do in this place but Koby I've got to say THANK YOU!!! I love conspiracies, true or not, I think it is fascinating how stories can be made out of a few facts or comments. This conspiracy theory is indeed an interesting one!


[This message has been edited by U2LA (edited 05-09-2002).]
no thank you, U2LA one of the few people who seems to interested in the topic.

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Old 05-10-2002, 12:08 PM   #98
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miss mac you have made a sweeping generalization which i suggest you retract, unless you have already done so(my ability to skim this thread is severely retarded at this point).
i know politicians. not american ones, but canadians. are they criminals?
i was on student council, am i a criminal?
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Old 05-10-2002, 01:05 PM   #99
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Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what YOU can do for your country!
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Old 05-10-2002, 01:08 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally posted by Miss MacPhisto:


So you named a few. So that still means, what, 99% of pols dont do shit for anyone other than themselves, and their friends.
99% is close enough for me to make a broad statement like that.
Let's see...allowing for rounding of percentages, you'd have to name 67 politicians, and demonstrate that 66 of them are crooked, for me to believe this statement.
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Old 05-10-2002, 01:16 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally posted by speedracer:
Let's see...allowing for rounding of percentages, you'd have to name 67 politicians, and demonstrate that 66 of them are crooked, for me to believe this statement.
Don't give her any ideas..she'll be on "Ask Jeeves" putting in the question "Name some crooked politicians"
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Old 05-10-2002, 04:29 PM   #102
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Regarding MOTIVE: For a long time, the U.S. has recognized that a united Islamic world, if accomplished, might pose the greatest threat to U.S. hegemony. In 1998, Dick Cheney stated that the greatest near-future threat to U.S. national security was the possibility that the oil reserves in Central Asia would be controlled by an Islamic government unfriendly to U.S. ambitions.

President Bush and VP Cheney represent a government of the major oil companies, picked by the major oil companies, and working for the major oil companies. That's their political base and the source of a major part of their funding and power. Not to mention their own families' economic interests (conflict-of-interests?).

The U.S. has for many years engaged in systematic violence in order to further its business interests. Oil and energy have been among the chief business interests which have prompted the U.S. to commit many of its worst crimes and to make decisions which on the surface appear very poor, but which bring enormous (blood-stained) profits to its big businesses. To name just a few examples, and there are many many more well-documented examples, U.S. policy in supporting the 30-year carnage in East Timor/Indonesia, U.S. policy in supporting various governments with pathetic human rights records in the Middle East, and U.S. policy in Nigeria have been atrocious and directed primarily at securing regional energy resources and rights for the profit of U.S. corporations. So there's no legitimate argument that many strong U.S. interests wouldn't kill for money.

Just ask yourself: who benefited the most from the horrendous human rights crime that we call the bombing of Afghanistan? Without a doubt, the U.S. and British companies that will eventually control the region's oil resources. Just wait and watch.

And who developed and helped fund Bin Laden and Al Queda? By all accounts, the U.S. military and intelligence community.

Whose anthrax was floating around the U.S.? Not the Russians'. It was the Ames strain, made in the USA by our government.

And the very idea that the air security over the Pentagon could be so pathetic is very hard to sustain given the little we do know about its funding, our intelligence services, and the secret service.

So while I think lots more real evidence would have to be developed to substantiate such an incredible accusation, certainly the possibility of U.S. corporate and/or governmental involvement in the 9-11 attacks is a VERY LEGITIMATE line of inquiry.

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Old 05-10-2002, 05:13 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally posted by sv:


Just ask yourself: who benefited the most from the horrendous human rights crime that we call the bombing of Afghanistan? Without a doubt, the U.S. and British companies that will eventually control the region's oil resources. Just wait and watch.

And who developed and helped fund Bin Laden and Al Queda? By all accounts, the U.S. military and intelligence community.

And the very idea that the air security over the Pentagon could be so pathetic is very hard to sustain given the little we do know about its funding, our intelligence services, and the secret service.


1.) I doubt afghanistan has any oil, if it did they wouldn't be selling opium to fund terrorism they'd use oil. And neighboring pakistan has virtually no oil either.


2.) No one ever said that bin laden hadn't been aided by teh US in the past...he turned on us..and we will remembdy that problem

3.) I don't think air security over the pentagon anticipated a commercial airliner. And fighters were scrambled to shoot down planes they just weren't quick enough.


Also look how far the stock market dipped on Sept 11th??? Look at every stock chart..every stock took a dive on sept 11th and we are still recovering??does allowing an attack sound like it aided US interests???
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Old 05-10-2002, 05:17 PM   #104
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Nicely stated, halfstar


DB9


------------------
AIM= diamondbruno9

[This message has been edited by diamond (edited 05-10-2002).]
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Old 05-10-2002, 05:28 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally posted by sv:
And who developed and helped fund Bin Laden and Al Queda? By all accounts, the U.S. military and intelligence community.
Ummm..sorry to disappoint you, but technically, the US did not, I repeat not, develop nor fund Al Qaeda. The only time we funded Bin Laden was when he was a "freedom fighter" (mujahedeen) against the Soviets. Neither the Taliban nor Al Qaeda existed at that time.
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