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Old 01-13-2005, 02:19 PM   #46
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Okay, people have made some very good points in this thread. Let's try to keep it on track and have an honest discussion, perhaps, about symbolism, the responsibility of public figures, Nazism...whatever, as long as we can keep our heads about us.

Teta, I don't think drhark meant to minimize the suffering of the victims of Nazism, only that this kind of evil can crop up in different ways and we have a responsibility to nip it in the bud before it causes damage on the scale of the Holocaust. I think that could also be read as trying to honor your ancestors and others who suffered terribly because of the policies of the Nazis: to prevent such horrific acts from happening again.

Deep breaths all around.

Carry on.
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Old 01-13-2005, 03:58 PM   #47
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I agree the Harry thing was in bad taste, but I find myself cringing a bit at the idea that the Nazis must NEVER EVER be joked about.... that would consign Fawlty Towers and half of Monty Pythons Flying Circus to the dustbin for a start.

Mock the devil, etc?
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Old 01-13-2005, 04:01 PM   #48
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As someone pointed out, the Nazis have been used for a lot of comedic material in pop culture (e.g. in Hogans Heroes, by Charlie Chaplin, Mel Brooks, Monty Python, even the last Indiana Jones movie where Indy accidentally runs into Hitler, etc.)...if it was a costume party where people dressed up to be funny looking, maybe that was Harry's motivation (misguided as it may have been). I don't think anyone thinks he was galmourizing Nazis.

He's young, stupid, and has apologized...time to move on.
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Old 01-13-2005, 04:12 PM   #49
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It's too bad his Mom isn't around to keep his sorry ass in line.
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Old 01-13-2005, 04:43 PM   #50
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I will go for the historical record and say that the links between radical Islam and Nazism existed during the war itself and Adolf Hitler held Islam in high regard as a religion of warrior peoples. The grandfather of Palestinian nationalism was Grand Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini and he met with Hitler numerous times even travelling to Germany during the war to assist, he gave units of Muslim troops to the SS to assist with the wiping out of Jews and to this day Mein Kamf is a bestseller among the PLO Arabs. The despotism of theocratic Islamic governance matches, the genocidal Jew hatred is there the only difference is that the Nazi's wanted to rule the world and bin Ladens ideological contemparies want to destroy it. The ideology gets thrown away to the dustbin of history - which I suppose must be the Arab world.
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Old 01-13-2005, 05:16 PM   #51
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Originally posted by najeena
It's too bad his Mom isn't around to keep his sorry ass in line.
I agree, Najeena.

I miss Diana. I know some people here might think that's stupid, but what can I say? I was a fan.
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Old 01-13-2005, 10:04 PM   #52
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Originally posted by Anthony
Though to be fair, I feel I have been very unforgiving and perhaps too critical. Its not his fault to begin with - its in his genes to be socially maladroit and culturally retarded; his grandfather and father are absolutely no better.

I apologise for beating a dead donkey over this issue - but, as one of the ministers said of the Royal family just after the American Revolution, 'The Americans managed to get rid of them, why can't we?!'

Stupid. All of them.

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P.S - The Royals, not Americans.
I kind of thought the same thing... I mean the royal family isn't exactly know for brains, and there is a fair amount of mental/emotional instability in the line too. Although these traits are found in most families, the British royal family's sole purpose is to be a figurehead...to be the "face" of the nation. They all live a very cushy life and all they have to do is not be offensive. For a normal kid, it's a stupid thing to do, for someone who's sole purpose is to be a goodwill ambassador, it's intolerable. I think he needs a refresher course on what he's getting paid for.
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Old 01-13-2005, 11:07 PM   #53
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He's apologized, I'm sure his intent wasn't to make Nazis look like a desirable group. People are making too much out of this, in my opinion.
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Old 01-13-2005, 11:08 PM   #54
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I tend to agree with Indra on this one. He knows he's getting followed around by the press. What he did was careless, and he has a repeated pattern of irresponsibility.
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Old 01-14-2005, 02:58 AM   #55
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Mrs Simpson, ex King Edward VIII, you know who.
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Old 01-14-2005, 03:10 AM   #56
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I'm personally of the opinion that its better to mock Nazis then hide them like some banished he-who-shall-not-be-named relative . How can people remember to never forget if they're not occassionally reminded? I do enjoy Monty Pythons Nazi gags.

Having said that Prince Harrys intentions are unclear.
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Old 01-14-2005, 04:01 AM   #57
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it was an exceptionally poor judgement on his part... but not because i think that what he did was sensationally wrong but because he should have realised how the press would react if they saw it. had anyone else gone dressed as a Nazi not a single person would ahve batted an eyelid and its not like the guy was running around pulling "Heil Hitlers" or is an actual nazi sympathiser.
It was a PRIVATE party after all and its unfortunate for him that his actions are judged so quickly and so easily but that is part of his status so far greater thought was needed when planning his costume. i think the whole thing has been blown way out of proprtion but he should have known better really.

that said, has anyone seen what the theme of the party was...?
"Natives and Colonials"
know if anythign is offensive that is - its such a stark indication of the upper classes and the supremist little world they live in. No one mentions that William went dressed in leopard skin as a "native". personally i reckon thats pretty offensive....
this lot must be taking advice off Grandpa Philip...
"Gramps, i got a Native and Colonials fancy dress party, what should i go as?"
"Well why dont you go as a spear chucker (his words once in reference to Aborigines) and you as a Nazi"
lets be honest... its a Philip type thing to do!
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Old 01-14-2005, 06:44 AM   #58
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I find Monty Python hilarious. Absolutely hilarious - John Cleese, too. However, Prince Harry is not a member of the Monty Python troop, and, I'm sorry to say, he is 'not' a normal 20 year old man. None of the Royals are - if they wanted to be normal they would stop living in their palaces and go out and work for a living. Thats a separate issue, however.

Prince Harry should remember his place, what he is meant to represent and what he is supposed to pay homage to - not think himself a comedian.

Ant.
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Old 01-14-2005, 06:56 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kieran McConville
I agree the Harry thing was in bad taste, but I find myself cringing a bit at the idea that the Nazis must NEVER EVER be joked about.... that would consign Fawlty Towers and half of Monty Pythons Flying Circus to the dustbin for a start.

Mock the devil, etc?
I agree completely with this statement and find it hard to understand why this silly matter has caused such outrage. On the one hand Harry is a playboy prince not yet grown up.

Further, I find it no different at all from Bono goose-stepping on stage which he did many times during ZooTV, not to mention U2 showing the image of a burning swastika at staidums all over the world during bullet the blue sky.

Harry was hardly running for parliament as a nazi! We fought and destroyed the Nazis so that we could live in a free society and that must include being free to take the piss out of them!

Mock the devil and he shall flee thee - absolutely!
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Old 01-14-2005, 07:25 AM   #60
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Originally posted by Diane L


I agree, Najeena.

I miss Diana. I know some people here might think that's stupid, but what can I say? I was a fan.
I liked her, too.
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