President gives unwelcome massage to Chancellor of Germany - Page 9 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-21-2006, 01:02 PM   #121
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
80sU2isBest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,970
Local Time: 04:31 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl


Would everyone please stop talking about the photos and watch the damn film clip I posted on page 1. On the same youtube page there are 5 second film clips of just the moment if you don't want to watch the Daily Show bit.
The video shows nothing about intent or context, absolutely nothing. All we see is a person being startled because she was caught unaware. As was pointed out previously, we do not know if they are friends, or what the situation was, or even if it bothered her.

Has a friend ever come up behind you and touched or massaged your shoulder. If you hadn't seen him coming, did it startle you and make you jump?
__________________

__________________
80sU2isBest is offline  
Old 07-21-2006, 01:09 PM   #122
Blue Crack Addict
 
joyfulgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 16,615
Local Time: 02:31 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


The video shows nothing about intent or context, absolutely nothing. All we see is a person being startled because she was caught unaware. As was pointed out previously, we do not know if they are friends, or what the situation was, or even if it bothered her.

Has a friend ever come up behind you and touched or massaged your shoulder. If you hadn't seen him coming, did it startle you and make you jump?
The relationship is clear: heads of state. What does a friend startling another friend have to do with anything? I work in a casual office where the men and women are fond of each other. We have seen each other everyday for the last 7 years, we sit around the office in jeans and tell jokes, we've been to each other's homes. However, we are still first and foremost colleagues, not friends. If our female executive director approached a male executive the way Bush did here, it would be WEIRD, okay? Just fucking weird.
__________________

__________________
joyfulgirl is offline  
Old 07-21-2006, 01:10 PM   #123
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,694
Local Time: 03:31 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Interesting viewpoint. A person may not know that a word is considered a slur. What makes the person a racist in your question? The fact they used the slur? Or is the person a racist already, and somehow doesn't know that a word is offensive?

I'm asking these questions because I think we need to be more careful before we start applying such labels.
An asshole doesn't walk around knowing he's an asshole. A chauvinist male sees the appropriate way to view women but turns a blind eye to it, or often views it as weak.

How often do you hear a racist say he's a racist? No one comes out and admits they're sexist, or homophobe, etc... They are all somehow justified in their mind.
__________________
BVS is offline  
Old 07-21-2006, 01:12 PM   #124
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
80sU2isBest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,970
Local Time: 04:31 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl


The relationship is clear: heads of state. What does a friend startling another friend have to do with anything? I work in a casual office where the men and women are fond of each other. We have seen each other everyday for the last 7 years, we sit around the office in jeans and tell jokes, we've been to each other's homes. However, we are still first and foremost colleagues, not friends. If our female executive director approached a male executive the way Bush did here, it would be WEIRD, okay? Just fucking weird.
I talked about a friend startling another friend because the fact that she was startled was the only obvious thing we could glean from the video.

You say the relationship is clear, but it's not. We don't know the entire nature of their relationship. If they have a friendly relationship, why is it so weird that he would do that?
__________________
80sU2isBest is offline  
Old 07-21-2006, 01:12 PM   #125
Refugee
 
Westport's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 2,151
Local Time: 01:31 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


The video shows nothing about intent or context, absolutely nothing. ?





Wow. That's the entire incident? See...by just looking at the photos, I had pictured in my mind that he had paused and massaged her for at least 10-15 seconds. Maybe minutes.

Once again, we still don't know their relationship.
__________________
Westport is offline  
Old 07-21-2006, 01:12 PM   #126
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,984
Local Time: 04:31 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by anitram

Men have no idea what it's like to be a woman in this world anymore than a white person knows what it's like to be black or a straight person knows what it's like to be gay. Yet you have at least one man here suggesting that the woman in question should be HAPPY she has a man touching her given she looks like such a "hag." It's a disgusting comment and not funny in the slightest.

Bush is inappropriate in a hundred different ways but it's not his behaviour in that short clip that is the worst thing on this thread.
I agree, they do have no idea- but some of them seem so sensitive to what it must be like that it is encouraging. And to be fair the person who posted what you mentioned is not a regular poster in FYM. There were other comments that bothered me too, I've already pointed them out. I think the guys here know who and what I was referring to, and hopefully they all feel the same way about those comments whether they said so or not. I wouldn't want to paint all male posters here with the same broad brush( I'm not saying you're doing that anitram- I know you're not, I know what you're getting at). All that being said it is still so disheartening, especially from younger men who are allegedly more enlightened because they grew up in a different era.


It's not "funny" at all, and at least out of respect for the female posters here (if you have any)-knock it off.
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 07-21-2006, 01:20 PM   #127
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,984
Local Time: 04:31 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest

You say the relationship is clear, but it's not. We don't know the entire nature of their relationship. If they have a friendly relationship, why is it so weird that he would do that?
At the G8 summit, where there are heads of state and they are supposed to be equals? If he wants to do that in private if she doesn't mind, that is one thing. I still think it's weird and not appropriate for people in their position, but that's just me I guess.

I think it was embarrassing and awkward for her. Did he do it to Tony Blair?

She is the Chancellor of Germany, not some girl in grade school having her hair pulled because Bushie has a crush on her. He should show some respect for her dignity and position in a situation like that and treat her accordingly, he just seems completely oblivious to that.
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 07-21-2006, 01:26 PM   #128
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
80sU2isBest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,970
Local Time: 04:31 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen


At the G8 summit, where there are heads of state and they are supposed to be equals? If he wants to do that in private if she doesn't mind, that is one thing. I still think it's weird and not appropriate for people in their position, but that's just me I guess.

I think it was embarrassing and awkward for her. Did he do it to Tony Blair?
I don't know. Do you?


Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
She is the Chancellor of Germany, not some girl in grade school having her hair pulled because Bushie has a crush on her. He should show some respect for her dignity and position in a situation like that and treat her accordingly, he just seems completely oblivious to that.

Please tell me what message you think the massage sends. I would really like to know why you think that massaging her shoulder is a detriment to her dignity and position.
__________________
80sU2isBest is offline  
Old 07-21-2006, 01:27 PM   #129
Blue Crack Addict
 
joyfulgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 16,615
Local Time: 02:31 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


I talked about a friend startling another friend because the fact that she was startled was the only obvious thing we could glean from the video.

You say the relationship is clear, but it's not. We don't know the entire nature of their relationship. If they have a friendly relationship, why is it so weird that he would do that?
Once again, using the example of my own office. We are closer than any other colleagues I've ever worked with. We've been to weddings together, we've cried at funerals together, we've gotten drunk together. But in the office we are COLLEAGUES. We do not give each other massages. In fact, there is a woman in my office with inappropriate boundaries who came up behind me one day and put her hands in my hair to look at my new color job. I nearly flipped. I turned around and said firmly, "Don't touch my hair!" I do not have a hair-touching relationship with her. So this isn't even necessarily about men and women; it's appropriate boundaries in a professional setting. I seriously doubt that no matter how "friendly" heads of states may be with each other, they don't massage each other's shoulders in the board room at the G8 summit. Please tell me how you think people would respond to this if the roles were reversed, if it were the Chancellor doing exactly that to Bush? I guarantee you, she would be crucified.

But honestly, if you think this is acceptable behavior, I encourage you to give a woman in your office a quick unsolicited and surpise massage. Do it now and report back--we'll wait.
__________________
joyfulgirl is offline  
Old 07-21-2006, 01:28 PM   #130
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
WildHoneyAlways's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: In a glass case of emotion
Posts: 8,158
Local Time: 03:31 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest

. If they have a friendly relationship, why is it so weird that he would do that?
In my opinion, people should keep their hands to themselves at work no matter what the relationship is. Is that such a weird request?
__________________
WildHoneyAlways is offline  
Old 07-21-2006, 01:29 PM   #131
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 02:31 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

But there should be what?



Hell no. Who knows how long he would have stayed there if she didn't react...
she could have tapped him on the hand and firmly said, "No thanks Mr President I'm good" and talked to him privately about personal boundries etc if she felt so inclined.

dbs
__________________
diamond is offline  
Old 07-21-2006, 01:34 PM   #132
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
80sU2isBest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,970
Local Time: 04:31 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl
But honestly, if you think this is acceptable behavior, I encourage you to give a woman in your office a quick unsolicited and surpise massage. Do it now and report back--we'll wait.
It would be rather hard to do that in my office, as I am in business for myself. However, when I worked for someone else, a friend worked with me, she massaged my shoulders and I massaged her shoulders. We enjoyed this because - now get this point - we had previously discussed it and it was okay.

Most of us have said that it was probably a "faux pas" for him to do that in public. However, what I am saying is that the act itself may not have been such a big deal because we do not know if the nature of their relationship.
__________________
80sU2isBest is offline  
Old 07-21-2006, 01:36 PM   #133
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
80sU2isBest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,970
Local Time: 04:31 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl
Please tell me how you think people would respond to this if the roles were reversed, if it were the Chancellor doing exactly that to Bush? I guarantee you, she would be crucified.
Not at all. One reason is that people are looking for things to crucify Bush over; that attitude is not there toward her.
__________________
80sU2isBest is offline  
Old 07-21-2006, 01:37 PM   #134
Refugee
 
Westport's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 2,151
Local Time: 01:31 AM
I have no idea what they're relationship is...maybe this was inappropriate in her mind, maybe it wasn't...we don't know. But if you look closely, It's actually a double squeeze of the shoulders and not a massage.

... and if I were to guess the context, I would say that he walked over and said something like "We appreciate Germany's support of Israel. Thank you".

Then again, I wasn't there. I have no idea what he said.
__________________
Westport is offline  
Old 07-21-2006, 01:37 PM   #135
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,984
Local Time: 04:31 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest

Please tell me what message you think the massage sends. I would really like to know why you think that massaging her shoulder is a detriment to her dignity and position.
It is unprofessional and sends the message that she is somehow "less than" in front of the world media on a world stage. See Angela, I can touch you whenever I want (not just touch, some sort of bizarre massage which I consider an intimate thing) and it's just that "good ole boy friendly thing". If by some bizarre stretch of the imagination I was in her position and the US President did that to me, I would be embarrassed, humiliated, and feel like once again a man has shown less than complete respect for what I have attained. It's really tough to quantify and put into words, I guess I would just hope that men at this point would understand. I don't know what else I can say other than what has already been said here.

I think we know he didn't do it to Tony Blair, at least not in public

When and if the G8 Summit is renamed the Alpha Busha Omega frat party and pig roast and filmed for Girls Gone Wild, then it won't be an issue I guess.
__________________

__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com