President gives unwelcome massage to Chancellor of Germany

[80sU2isBest]

Would everyone please stop talking about the photos and watch the damn film clip I posted on page 1. On the same youtube page there are 5 second film clips of just the moment if you don't want to watch the Daily Show bit.

The video shows nothing about intent or context, absolutely nothing. All we see is a person being startled because she was caught unaware. As was pointed out previously, we do not know if they are friends, or what the situation was, or even if it bothered her.

Has a friend ever come up behind you and touched or massaged your shoulder. If you hadn't seen him coming, did it startle you and make you jump?

 

[joyfulgirl]

The video shows nothing about intent or context, absolutely nothing. All we see is a person being startled because she was caught unaware. As was pointed out previously, we do not know if they are friends, or what the situation was, or even if it bothered her.

Has a friend ever come up behind you and touched or massaged your shoulder. If you hadn't seen him coming, did it startle you and make you jump?

The relationship is clear: heads of state. What does a friend startling another friend have to do with anything? I work in a casual office where the men and women are fond of each other. We have seen each other everyday for the last 7 years, we sit around the office in jeans and tell jokes, we've been to each other's homes. However, we are still first and foremost colleagues, not friends. If our female executive director approached a male executive the way Bush did here, it would be WEIRD, okay? Just fucking weird.

 

[BVS]

Interesting viewpoint. A person may not know that a word is considered a slur. What makes the person a racist in your question? The fact they used the slur? Or is the person a racist already, and somehow doesn't know that a word is offensive?

I'm asking these questions because I think we need to be more careful before we start applying such labels.

An asshole doesn't walk around knowing he's an asshole. A chauvinist male sees the appropriate way to view women but turns a blind eye to it, or often views it as weak.

How often do you hear a racist say he's a racist? No one comes out and admits they're sexist, or homophobe, etc... They are all somehow justified in their mind.

 

[80sU2isBest]

The relationship is clear: heads of state. What does a friend startling another friend have to do with anything? I work in a casual office where the men and women are fond of each other. We have seen each other everyday for the last 7 years, we sit around the office in jeans and tell jokes, we've been to each other's homes. However, we are still first and foremost colleagues, not friends. If our female executive director approached a male executive the way Bush did here, it would be WEIRD, okay? Just fucking weird.

I talked about a friend startling another friend because the fact that she was startled was the only obvious thing we could glean from the video.

You say the relationship is clear, but it's not. We don't know the entire nature of their relationship. If they have a friendly relationship, why is it so weird that he would do that?

 

[Westport]

The video shows nothing about intent or context, absolutely nothing. ?

Wow. That's the entire incident? See...by just looking at the photos, I had pictured in my mind that he had paused and massaged her for at least 10-15 seconds. Maybe minutes.

Once again, we still don't know their relationship.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Men have no idea what it's like to be a woman in this world anymore than a white person knows what it's like to be black or a straight person knows what it's like to be gay. Yet you have at least one man here suggesting that the woman in question should be HAPPY she has a man touching her given she looks like such a "hag." It's a disgusting comment and not funny in the slightest.

Bush is inappropriate in a hundred different ways but it's not his behaviour in that short clip that is the worst thing on this thread.

I agree, they do have no idea- but some of them seem so sensitive to what it must be like that it is encouraging. And to be fair the person who posted what you mentioned is not a regular poster in FYM. There were other comments that bothered me too, I've already pointed them out. I think the guys here know who and what I was referring to, and hopefully they all feel the same way about those comments whether they said so or not. I wouldn't want to paint all male posters here with the same broad brush( I'm not saying you're doing that anitram- I know you're not, I know what you're getting at). All that being said it is still so disheartening, especially from younger men who are allegedly more enlightened because they grew up in a different era.


It's not "funny" at all, and at least out of respect for the female posters here (if you have any)-knock it off.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

You say the relationship is clear, but it's not. We don't know the entire nature of their relationship. If they have a friendly relationship, why is it so weird that he would do that?

At the G8 summit, where there are heads of state and they are supposed to be equals? If he wants to do that in private if she doesn't mind, that is one thing. I still think it's weird and not appropriate for people in their position, but that's just me I guess.

I think it was embarrassing and awkward for her. Did he do it to Tony Blair?

She is the Chancellor of Germany, not some girl in grade school having her hair pulled because Bushie has a crush on her. He should show some respect for her dignity and position in a situation like that and treat her accordingly, he just seems completely oblivious to that.

 

[80sU2isBest]

At the G8 summit, where there are heads of state and they are supposed to be equals? If he wants to do that in private if she doesn't mind, that is one thing. I still think it's weird and not appropriate for people in their position, but that's just me I guess.

I think it was embarrassing and awkward for her. Did he do it to Tony Blair?

I don't know. Do you?

She is the Chancellor of Germany, not some girl in grade school having her hair pulled because Bushie has a crush on her. He should show some respect for her dignity and position in a situation like that and treat her accordingly, he just seems completely oblivious to that.

Please tell me what message you think the massage sends. I would really like to know why you think that massaging her shoulder is a detriment to her dignity and position.

 

[joyfulgirl]

I talked about a friend startling another friend because the fact that she was startled was the only obvious thing we could glean from the video.

You say the relationship is clear, but it's not. We don't know the entire nature of their relationship. If they have a friendly relationship, why is it so weird that he would do that?

Once again, using the example of my own office. We are closer than any other colleagues I've ever worked with. We've been to weddings together, we've cried at funerals together, we've gotten drunk together. But in the office we are COLLEAGUES. We do not give each other massages. In fact, there is a woman in my office with inappropriate boundaries who came up behind me one day and put her hands in my hair to look at my new color job. I nearly flipped. I turned around and said firmly, "Don't touch my hair!" I do not have a hair-touching relationship with her. So this isn't even necessarily about men and women; it's appropriate boundaries in a professional setting. I seriously doubt that no matter how "friendly" heads of states may be with each other, they don't massage each other's shoulders in the board room at the G8 summit. Please tell me how you think people would respond to this if the roles were reversed, if it were the Chancellor doing exactly that to Bush? I guarantee you, she would be crucified.

But honestly, if you think this is acceptable behavior, I encourage you to give a woman in your office a quick unsolicited and surpise massage. Do it now and report back--we'll wait.

 

[WildHoneyAlways]

. If they have a friendly relationship, why is it so weird that he would do that?

In my opinion, people should keep their hands to themselves at work no matter what the relationship is. Is that such a weird request?

 

[diamond]

But there should be what?



Hell no. Who knows how long he would have stayed there if she didn't react...

she could have tapped him on the hand and firmly said, "No thanks Mr President I'm good" and talked to him privately about personal boundries etc if she felt so inclined.

dbs

 

[80sU2isBest]

But honestly, if you think this is acceptable behavior, I encourage you to give a woman in your office a quick unsolicited and surpise massage. Do it now and report back--we'll wait.

It would be rather hard to do that in my office, as I am in business for myself. However, when I worked for someone else, a friend worked with me, she massaged my shoulders and I massaged her shoulders. We enjoyed this because - now get this point - we had previously discussed it and it was okay.

Most of us have said that it was probably a "faux pas" for him to do that in public. However, what I am saying is that the act itself may not have been such a big deal because we do not know if the nature of their relationship.

 

[80sU2isBest]

Please tell me how you think people would respond to this if the roles were reversed, if it were the Chancellor doing exactly that to Bush? I guarantee you, she would be crucified.

Not at all. One reason is that people are looking for things to crucify Bush over; that attitude is not there toward her.

 

[Westport]

I have no idea what they're relationship is...maybe this was inappropriate in her mind, maybe it wasn't...we don't know. But if you look closely, It's actually a double squeeze of the shoulders and not a massage.

... and if I were to guess the context, I would say that he walked over and said something like "We appreciate Germany's support of Israel. Thank you".

Then again, I wasn't there. I have no idea what he said.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Please tell me what message you think the massage sends. I would really like to know why you think that massaging her shoulder is a detriment to her dignity and position.

It is unprofessional and sends the message that she is somehow "less than" in front of the world media on a world stage. See Angela, I can touch you whenever I want (not just touch, some sort of bizarre massage which I consider an intimate thing) and it's just that "good ole boy friendly thing". If by some bizarre stretch of the imagination I was in her position and the US President did that to me, I would be embarrassed, humiliated, and feel like once again a man has shown less than complete respect for what I have attained. It's really tough to quantify and put into words, I guess I would just hope that men at this point would understand. I don't know what else I can say other than what has already been said here.

I think we know he didn't do it to Tony Blair, at least not in public

When and if the G8 Summit is renamed the Alpha Busha Omega frat party and pig roast and filmed for Girls Gone Wild, then it won't be an issue I guess.

 

[80sU2isBest]

I think we know he didn't do it to Tony Blair, at least not in public

How do we know?

 

[80sU2isBest]

It is unprofessional and sends the message that she is somehow "less than" in front of the world media on a world stage. See Angela, I can touch you whenever I want (not just touch, some sort of bizarre massage which I consider an intimate thing) and it's just that "good ole boy friendly thing"..

That is the attitude you are projecting upon him. But it may not be the attitude with which he did it. Maybe he was just saying "you know, you're alright", whcih is what I think the massage said.

Neither of us can know for sure.

If by some bizarre stretch of the imagination I was in her position and the US President did that to me, I would be embarrassed, humiliated, and feel like once again a man has shown less than complete respect for what I have attained. It's really tough to quantify and put into words, I guess I would just hope that men at this point would understand. I don't know what else I can say other than what has already been said here.

Would you honestly feel that strongly if the President was a personal friend, and not a stranger?

 

[joyfulgirl]

It is unprofessional and sends the message that she is somehow "less than" in front of the world media on a world stage. See Angela, I can touch you whenever I want (not just touch, some sort of bizarre massage which I consider an intimate thing) and it's just that "good ole boy friendly thing". If by some bizarre stretch of the imagination I was in her position and the US President did that to me, I would be embarrassed, humiliated, and feel like once again a man has shown less than complete respect for what I have attained. It's really tough to quantify and put into words, I guess I would just hope that men at this point would understand. I don't know what else I can say other than what has already been said here.

I think we know he didn't do it to Tony Blair, at least not in public

When and if the G8 Summit is renamed the Alpha Busha Omega frat party and pig roast and filmed for Girls Gone Wild, then it won't be an issue I guess.

Haven't seem him do it to his buddy Putin either. In fact, he did this to the only "little lady" in the room.

I am amazed that Bush supporters want to defend him on this. I would not defend a politician I admire on this issue.

As others have said, I also don't think Bush had conscious ill intentions. He's just clueless, inappropriate, and undignified.

 

[80sU2isBest]

I am amazed that Bush supporters want to defend him on this. I would not defend a politician I admire on this issue.

As others have said, I also don't think Bush had conscious ill intentions. He's just clueless, inappropriate, and undignified.

Most of us aren't defending him as much as saying "it's not sexual harassment". I have said that it was "stupid" and a "faux pas".

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

How do we know?

I am assuming since there were cameras there, if he did it would be in a photo or on tape. Even if he did do it to him, that would not make it acceptable to do it to her. As a man and as US President, he needs to be sensitive in his dealings with women in positions of power. That is the bottom line for me-trust me, I am not merely looking for something to attack Bush about. To say that really questions my integrity. It is an important issue for me as a woman-period, end of story.


A male friend can massage me all he wants in private with my consent-not in public in my place of work in front of the whole world.

 

[80sU2isBest]

That is the bottom line for me-trust me, I am not merely looking for something to attack Bush about. To say that really questions my integrity.

Never did I say that you are merely looking for something to criticize Bush about. I wouldn't say that about you. From previous posts of mine, you know that I really respect you and do not question your integrity.

 

[80sU2isBest]

It is an important issue for me as a woman-period, end of story.

A male friend can massage me all he wants in private with my consent-not in public in my place of work in front of the whole world.

see below; double post

 

[80sU2isBest]

It is an important issue for me as a woman-period, end of story.

A male friend can massage me all he wants in private with my consent-not in public in my place of work in front of the whole world.

I understand completely, and am not questioning that. I am simply saying that I think his intentions probably were not bad, as some in this thread seem to think.

 

[nbcrusader]

An asshole doesn't walk around knowing he's an asshole. A chauvinist male sees the appropriate way to view women but turns a blind eye to it, or often views it as weak.

How often do you hear a racist say he's a racist? No one comes out and admits they're sexist, or homophobe, etc... They are all somehow justified in their mind.

Is intent required to label someone as racist, sexist, homophobe? Or is it a matter of strict liability - no intent required.

 

[Irvine511]

(this thread is unbelievable)

 

[nbcrusader]

Bush's Back Rub Magnified in Cyberspace

NEW YORK (AP) -- An impromptu back rub that President Bush gave German Chancellor Angela Merkel is now massaging millions of funny bones.

A 5-second video and series of photographs recently posted on YouTube.com and various blogs show Bush surprising Merkel at the G-8 Summit by quickly rubbing the back of her neck and shoulders. The chancellor immediately hunches her shoulders, throws her arms up and grimaces, though she appears to smile as Bush walks away.

Millions of funny bones....

 

[WildHoneyAlways]

Bush's Back Rub Magnified in Cyberspace



Millions of funny bones....

Well this just confirms it; millions of people are idiots.

 

[randhail]

Perhaps it's that millions of people are capable of laughing at the situation and not turning it into a national crisis.

 

[Irvine511]

or, perhaps millions of people didn't think he could embarass them any more than he already has.

 

[BVS]

Is intent required to label someone as racist, sexist, homophobe? Or is it a matter of strict liability - no intent required.

Do you mean someone intends to be a racist? I don't understand your line of questioning.