President gives unwelcome massage to Chancellor of Germany - Page 11 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-21-2006, 03:49 PM   #151
War Child
 
MumblingBono's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The State Good Bands Skip Over
Posts: 566
Local Time: 12:40 PM
standard Bush assclownery
__________________

__________________
MumblingBono is offline  
Old 07-21-2006, 04:10 PM   #152
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 04:40 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Do you mean someone intends to be a racist? I don't understand your line of questioning.
What is so difficult to understand?

If you are going to charge someone as being racist or sexist, should there be a showing of racist or sexist intent?

Or can you make the charge based on an action ("strict liability") irrespective of the individual's intent.
__________________

__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 07-21-2006, 04:14 PM   #153
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,687
Local Time: 06:40 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


What is so difficult to understand?

If you are going to charge someone as being racist or sexist, should there be a showing of racist or sexist intent?

Or can you make the charge based on an action ("strict liability") irrespective of the individual's intent.
Seems pretty obvious that intent isn't needed.
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 07-21-2006, 04:15 PM   #154
War Child
 
najeena's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: an island paradise
Posts: 995
Local Time: 12:40 PM
Bush acted in the most immature way a man in his position could. At a global meeting of world leaders in front of cameras, my God... what could he have been thinking? Was he under the influence of some drug? The unwanted touching, the swearing, the open-mouth chewing that most five-year olds can't get away with... it only cements the opinion that most people have of him. God knows people can and do act this way, but he did it for all the world to see.
__________________
najeena is offline  
Old 07-21-2006, 04:20 PM   #155
Blue Crack Distributor
 
VintagePunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In a dry and waterless place
Posts: 55,732
Local Time: 07:40 AM
I think what it boils down to, whether or not the Bush supporters care to agree, in the world arena he's portraying himself as a big, dumb, ill-mannered oaf.
__________________
VintagePunk is offline  
Old 07-21-2006, 04:24 PM   #156
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
maycocksean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Most Important State in the Union
Posts: 4,882
Local Time: 07:40 AM
I don't think it helps when the press focused on sensationalism and grabbing headlines use gratuitous words like "molest" and "grope." I saw the video, and I think MOST of us would agree that it was a dopey thing to do that implies perhaps a cluelessness about what is appropriate behavior between two world leaders, and one could even go so far as to suggest implies an UNCONSCIOUS sexist attitude towards women.

However the overblown language makes it difficult for us to reach any kind of reasonable consensus.

Mrs. S, I have to agree with you, the worst thing on this thread has not been the pictures of Bush's bumblings but somehow of the blatantly sexist comments made on this thread. My jaw dropped to the floor at some of the things I read. Just want you to know that here's a man (and a young one) who finds such comments unacceptable.
__________________
maycocksean is offline  
Old 07-21-2006, 04:33 PM   #157
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 04:40 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Seems pretty obvious that intent isn't needed.
I hope you never make a mistake.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 07-21-2006, 04:36 PM   #158
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
maycocksean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Most Important State in the Union
Posts: 4,882
Local Time: 07:40 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


If you are going to charge someone as being racist or sexist, should there be a showing of racist or sexist intent?

Or can you make the charge based on an action ("strict liability") irrespective of the individual's intent.
Good question, and I believe the answer is to the first question is no, not necessarily. The answer to the second question is yes. Perhaps, not in a legal sense, but in an interpersonal sense, yes, you can charge someone with racism without having racist intent. The fact is, today, except for the most extreme racists, most racism is "unintentional." It has to do with views that are not viewed as "racist" but "true."

Here's an example:

Supposing a white friend of mine, says, "Wow, so you're gonna be a doctor? Cause it seems like black people are better at sports and stuff. Do you think you can handle it?"

Now my friend doesn't intend to be "racist" but he's made racist statement that reflects beliefs he has about the "inherent" capablities of blacks to do certain types of work. He doesn't think of those beliefs as racist, merely "true." Yet that doesn't make those beliefs any less racist.

I believe prejudice is in all of us. It's a part of human nature, and the first step to getting past it is acknowledging that we have it. I've realized that my prejudices towards certain ethnic groups have developed over time, living in Saipan. I have to be aware of that racism and fight against it in myself. In general, I believe a person who says "I'm not a racist" or "I'm not prejudiced" is the most difficult to deal with. They're lying, whether they realize it or not.
__________________
maycocksean is offline  
Old 07-21-2006, 04:37 PM   #159
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,687
Local Time: 06:40 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


I hope you never make a mistake.
I make mistake all the time, but I'm not going to "mistakingly" throw out a slur because I don't think that way. I'm not going to mistakingly make a woman uncomfortable or demeaned because I don't think that way...
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 07-21-2006, 04:39 PM   #160
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
80sU2isBest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,970
Local Time: 07:40 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by najeena
Bush acted in the most immature way a man in his position could. At a global meeting of world leaders in front of cameras, my God... what could he have been thinking? Was he under the influence of some drug? The unwanted touching, the swearing, the open-mouth chewing that most five-year olds can't get away with... it only cements the opinion that most people have of him. God knows people can and do act this way, but he did it for all the world to see.
The fuss over the "swearing" was way overblown. The word s*** is nothing compared to the words that have slipped out of other presidents' mouths when they weren't aware they culd be heard. Jiminy Cricket.
__________________
80sU2isBest is offline  
Old 07-21-2006, 04:39 PM   #161
you are what you is
 
Salome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 22,016
Local Time: 01:40 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by VintagePunk
I think what it boils down to, whether or not the Bush supporters care to agree, in the world arena he's portraying himself as a big, dumb, ill-mannered oaf.
well, to be quite honest
if it wasn't for this forum I probably wouldn't have heard of it

especially as a man you just don't go invading a woman's private space though
it is just not done
(and if Merkel and Bush are friends then even I must have 100 friends)
__________________
Salome is offline  
Old 07-21-2006, 04:53 PM   #162
Blue Crack Distributor
 
VintagePunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In a dry and waterless place
Posts: 55,732
Local Time: 07:40 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Salome
well, to be quite honest
if it wasn't for this forum I probably wouldn't have heard of it

especially as a man you just don't go invading a woman's private space though
it is just not done
(and if Merkel and Bush are friends then even I must have 100 friends)
The brief film clip has been shown on television. I saw it a few days before this thread started.
__________________
VintagePunk is offline  
Old 07-21-2006, 05:14 PM   #163
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 04:40 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


I make mistake all the time, but I'm not going to "mistakingly" throw out a slur because I don't think that way. I'm not going to mistakingly make a woman uncomfortable or demeaned because I don't think that way...
You are relying on your own intent.

Judgment befall on those who's actions are labeled wrong by others.

You may not feel you are making a women uncomfortable, but if she (or anyone else) says otherwise, you are sexist.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 07-21-2006, 05:17 PM   #164
you are what you is
 
Salome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 22,016
Local Time: 01:40 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


You are relying on your own intent.

Judgment befall on those who's actions are labeled wrong by others.

You may not feel you are making a women uncomfortable, but if she (or anyone else) says otherwise, you are sexist.
that only makes a stronger case for making sure you won't get into a situation where people are to interpret your actions
__________________
Salome is offline  
Old 07-21-2006, 05:24 PM   #165
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 04:40 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by maycocksean


Good question, and I believe the answer is to the first question is no, not necessarily. The answer to the second question is yes. Perhaps, not in a legal sense, but in an interpersonal sense, yes, you can charge someone with racism without having racist intent. The fact is, today, except for the most extreme racists, most racism is "unintentional." It has to do with views that are not viewed as "racist" but "true."

Here's an example:

Supposing a white friend of mine, says, "Wow, so you're gonna be a doctor? Cause it seems like black people are better at sports and stuff. Do you think you can handle it?"

Now my friend doesn't intend to be "racist" but he's made racist statement that reflects beliefs he has about the "inherent" capablities of blacks to do certain types of work. He doesn't think of those beliefs as racist, merely "true." Yet that doesn't make those beliefs any less racist.

I believe prejudice is in all of us. It's a part of human nature, and the first step to getting past it is acknowledging that we have it. I've realized that my prejudices towards certain ethnic groups have developed over time, living in Saipan. I have to be aware of that racism and fight against it in myself. In general, I believe a person who says "I'm not a racist" or "I'm not prejudiced" is the most difficult to deal with. They're lying, whether they realize it or not.
Good example. I guess the question for the hypothetical is "why did your friend make such an distinction in inherent abilities with the question?"
__________________

__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com