MrsSpringsteen
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President Carter-Bush Exploited 9/11
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nbcrusader
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From the paper that wants to bring back presidential assassination....
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MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
well if they are anti-Bush, I don't think President Carter would stand for them misquoting him..
verte76
Blue Crack Addict
That's right, this is a paper that has some people in it, anyway, who at least condone political assassinations. Very uncool. 
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OP
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
Oh well, I still agree w/ what President Carter said. I'm not condoning whatever sick things that paper has going on 
I think Bush has exploited 9/11 to a certain extent, but I'm not denying that a Democratic President might have done the same thing.
I think Bush has exploited 9/11 to a certain extent, but I'm not denying that a Democratic President might have done the same thing.
deep
Blue Crack Addict
We don't need Carter
or any newspaper article to tell us about the
SHAMEFUL WAY THIS ADMINISTRATION HAS EXPLOITED 911
It just takes a minimal amount of objectivity and integrity to admit this.
or any newspaper article to tell us about the
SHAMEFUL WAY THIS ADMINISTRATION HAS EXPLOITED 911
It just takes a minimal amount of objectivity and integrity to admit this.
as someone who could smell the sulfuric like stench of melted steel and charred bodies from my front lawn, jimmy carter can go F himself. have a nice day.
deep
Blue Crack Addict
I could post dozens of articles from family members...
i would not dismiss them and tell them to have a nice day.
nbcrusader
Blue Crack Addict
Perhaps you didn't read far enough...
Perhaps is boils down to partisianship? Carter was doing a nice job as "elder statesman". Now, he is slipping into the role of DNC mouthpiece.
Perhaps is boils down to partisianship? Carter was doing a nice job as "elder statesman". Now, he is slipping into the role of DNC mouthpiece.
diamond
ONE love, blood, life
NB,nbcrusader said:
Sadly,I don't think some posters can see as clearly as you.
db9
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OP
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
I don't think President Carter is or would ever minimize the horrific events of that day. He just doesn't seem like that kind of man to me. I think he has the right to express that opinion.
Oh well, everything in this forum seems to be viewed through partisan colored glasses.
I don't live in NYC so I can't say I understand it from that point of view, but I think I can safely say how it affected me and how I still feel about it.
Oh well, everything in this forum seems to be viewed through partisan colored glasses.
I don't live in NYC so I can't say I understand it from that point of view, but I think I can safely say how it affected me and how I still feel about it.
hiphop
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
For those of you who critisize Carter: personally, I don´t think its very patriotic to attack former Presidents for their views. But I don´t care much for patriotism anyway.
Here´s a little information on Jimmy Carter:
Foreign Policy
Carter promoted his foreign policy as being one that would place human rights at the forefront. This was intended to be a break from the policies of the Nixon administration, in which human rights abuses were often overlooked if they were committed by a nation that was allied to the United States. The Carter administration ended support to the historically U.S.-backed Somoza dictatorship in Nicaragua, and gave millions of dollars in aide to the nation's new regime.
The main conflict between human rights and U.S. interests came in Carter's dealings with the Shah of Iran . The Shah had been a strong ally of America since World War 2, and was one of the few U.S.-friendly regimes in the Middle East . However, his regime was also quite brutal and oppressive. Though Carter praised the Shah as a wise and valuable leader, when a popular uprising against the monarchy broke out in Iran, the Carter administration did not intervene.
The Shah was deposed and exiled. Many have since connected the Shah's dwindling U.S. support as a leading cause of his quick overthrow. Carter was initially prepared to recognize the revolutionary government of the monarch's successor, but his efforts proved futile.
In 1979 , Carter reluctantly allowed the former Iranian Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi into the United States for political asylum and medical treatment. In response to the Shah's entry into the U.S., Iranian militants seized the American embassy in Tehran taking 52 Americans hostage and demanded the Shah's return to Iran for trial and execution. Though later that year the Shah would leave the US and die in Egypt , the Iran hostage crisis continued, and dominated the last year of Carter's presidency. The subsequent responses to the crisis, from a " Rose Garden strategy" of staying inside the White House , to the botched attempt to rescue the hostages, were largely seen as contributing to defeat in the 1980 election.
Although the Carter team had pursued the release of the hostages, an agreement for their release was not signed until January 19 , 1981 , after the election of Ronald Reagan . In what many observers have seen as a slight against Carter, the Iranians waited to release the captives until minutes after Reagan was sworn-in as president. The hostages had been held captive for 444 days.
The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in December 1979 was a response to the U.S. military presence there, according to Carter's National Security advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski . After the invasion, Carter announced the Carter Doctrine , according to which the U.S. would not allow any outside power to gain control of the Persian Gulf . Also in response to the events in Afghanistan, Carter prohibited Americans from participating in the 1980 Summer Olympics , which were held in Moscow , and he reinstated registration for the draft for young males.
In order to oppose the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, Carter and Zbigniew Brzezinski started a $40 billion program of training Islamic fundamentalists in Pakistan and Afghanistan. In retrospect, this contributed to the collapse of the Soviet Union , but, ironically, is also often tied to the resulting instability of post-Soviet Afghani governments, which led to the rise of Islamic theocracy in the region. Some even tie the program to the 1996 coup that established the Taliban regime in Afghanistan and to the creation of violent Islamic terrorist groups. At the time, and perhaps continuing into the Reagan and G.H.W. Bush presidencies, Islamic fundamentalism as a political force was not well understood.
Controversies
Members of the Reagan-Bush campaign and administration (most notably Barbara Honegger , in her book October Surprise ), and the president of Iran in 1980 ( Abu Al-Hasan Bani-Sadr , My Turn to Speak: Iran, the Revolution and Secret Deals With the U.S. ) have alleged that a secret agreement between the Reagan campaign (orchestrated by George H. W. Bush ) was responsible for destroying a deal between the Carter administration and the Iranian government that would have had the hostages released in October 1980 . Such a scenario was termed "The October Surprise" by the Reagan team. Unnamed sources also are alleged to have claimed that it was blackmail over the deal that led to the U.S. involvement in the later Iran-Contra scandal , as Iran demanded to be sold weapons to use in its war against Iraq if the Reagan administration wanted it to keep quiet.
During Carter's administration, diplomatic recognition was switched from the Republic of China to the People's Republic of China , a policy continued into the 21st century . In response, Congress passed the Taiwan Relations Act .
Carter has been accused of ordering a cover-up of the events at Three Mile Island following the near meltdown of that nuclear plant . He has also been criticized for not doing enough to promote his stated human rights foreign policy stance in his administration, such as continuing to support Indonesia even while they were committing genocide in their occupation of East Timor .
Post-Presidency
Since losing his bid for re-election, Carter has been involved in a variety of public policy , human rights , and charitable causes. His work in international public policy and conflict resolution is largely through the Carter Center . The center also focuses on world-wide health care including the campaign to eliminate guinea worm disease .
He and members of the center are sometimes involved in the monitoring of the electoral process in support of free and fair elections. This includes acting as election observers, particularly in Latin America and Africa .
Because he had served as a submariner (the only President to have done so), a submarine was named for him. The USS Jimmy Carter (SSN-23) was named on April 27 , 1998 , making it one of the very few US Navy vessels to be named for a person still alive at the time of the naming.
Carter visited Cuba in May 2002 meeting with Fidel Castro and becoming the first President of the United States, in or out of office, to visit the island since Castro's 1959 revolution.
Not all Carter's efforts have gained him favor in Washington; President Clinton and both Presidents Bush were said to have been less than pleased with Carter's "free-lance" diplomacy in Iraq and elsewhere.
Carter was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 2002 for his decades of untiring effort to find peaceful solutions to international conflicts, to advance democracy and human rights, and to promote economic and social development. He was the third president, after Theodore Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson , to receive the award.
In March 2004 Carter roundly condemned George W. Bush and Tony Blair for waging an unnecessary war "based upon lies and misinterpretations" in order to oust Saddam Hussein . He claimed that Blair had allowed his better judgement to be swayed by Bush's desire to finish a war that his father had started.
He and his wife are also well-known for their work with Habitat for Humanity .
http://www.usa-presidents.info/carter.htm
Here´s a little information on Jimmy Carter:
Foreign Policy
Carter promoted his foreign policy as being one that would place human rights at the forefront. This was intended to be a break from the policies of the Nixon administration, in which human rights abuses were often overlooked if they were committed by a nation that was allied to the United States. The Carter administration ended support to the historically U.S.-backed Somoza dictatorship in Nicaragua, and gave millions of dollars in aide to the nation's new regime.
The main conflict between human rights and U.S. interests came in Carter's dealings with the Shah of Iran . The Shah had been a strong ally of America since World War 2, and was one of the few U.S.-friendly regimes in the Middle East . However, his regime was also quite brutal and oppressive. Though Carter praised the Shah as a wise and valuable leader, when a popular uprising against the monarchy broke out in Iran, the Carter administration did not intervene.
The Shah was deposed and exiled. Many have since connected the Shah's dwindling U.S. support as a leading cause of his quick overthrow. Carter was initially prepared to recognize the revolutionary government of the monarch's successor, but his efforts proved futile.
In 1979 , Carter reluctantly allowed the former Iranian Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi into the United States for political asylum and medical treatment. In response to the Shah's entry into the U.S., Iranian militants seized the American embassy in Tehran taking 52 Americans hostage and demanded the Shah's return to Iran for trial and execution. Though later that year the Shah would leave the US and die in Egypt , the Iran hostage crisis continued, and dominated the last year of Carter's presidency. The subsequent responses to the crisis, from a " Rose Garden strategy" of staying inside the White House , to the botched attempt to rescue the hostages, were largely seen as contributing to defeat in the 1980 election.
Although the Carter team had pursued the release of the hostages, an agreement for their release was not signed until January 19 , 1981 , after the election of Ronald Reagan . In what many observers have seen as a slight against Carter, the Iranians waited to release the captives until minutes after Reagan was sworn-in as president. The hostages had been held captive for 444 days.
The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in December 1979 was a response to the U.S. military presence there, according to Carter's National Security advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski . After the invasion, Carter announced the Carter Doctrine , according to which the U.S. would not allow any outside power to gain control of the Persian Gulf . Also in response to the events in Afghanistan, Carter prohibited Americans from participating in the 1980 Summer Olympics , which were held in Moscow , and he reinstated registration for the draft for young males.
In order to oppose the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, Carter and Zbigniew Brzezinski started a $40 billion program of training Islamic fundamentalists in Pakistan and Afghanistan. In retrospect, this contributed to the collapse of the Soviet Union , but, ironically, is also often tied to the resulting instability of post-Soviet Afghani governments, which led to the rise of Islamic theocracy in the region. Some even tie the program to the 1996 coup that established the Taliban regime in Afghanistan and to the creation of violent Islamic terrorist groups. At the time, and perhaps continuing into the Reagan and G.H.W. Bush presidencies, Islamic fundamentalism as a political force was not well understood.
Controversies
Members of the Reagan-Bush campaign and administration (most notably Barbara Honegger , in her book October Surprise ), and the president of Iran in 1980 ( Abu Al-Hasan Bani-Sadr , My Turn to Speak: Iran, the Revolution and Secret Deals With the U.S. ) have alleged that a secret agreement between the Reagan campaign (orchestrated by George H. W. Bush ) was responsible for destroying a deal between the Carter administration and the Iranian government that would have had the hostages released in October 1980 . Such a scenario was termed "The October Surprise" by the Reagan team. Unnamed sources also are alleged to have claimed that it was blackmail over the deal that led to the U.S. involvement in the later Iran-Contra scandal , as Iran demanded to be sold weapons to use in its war against Iraq if the Reagan administration wanted it to keep quiet.
During Carter's administration, diplomatic recognition was switched from the Republic of China to the People's Republic of China , a policy continued into the 21st century . In response, Congress passed the Taiwan Relations Act .
Carter has been accused of ordering a cover-up of the events at Three Mile Island following the near meltdown of that nuclear plant . He has also been criticized for not doing enough to promote his stated human rights foreign policy stance in his administration, such as continuing to support Indonesia even while they were committing genocide in their occupation of East Timor .
Post-Presidency
Since losing his bid for re-election, Carter has been involved in a variety of public policy , human rights , and charitable causes. His work in international public policy and conflict resolution is largely through the Carter Center . The center also focuses on world-wide health care including the campaign to eliminate guinea worm disease .
He and members of the center are sometimes involved in the monitoring of the electoral process in support of free and fair elections. This includes acting as election observers, particularly in Latin America and Africa .
Because he had served as a submariner (the only President to have done so), a submarine was named for him. The USS Jimmy Carter (SSN-23) was named on April 27 , 1998 , making it one of the very few US Navy vessels to be named for a person still alive at the time of the naming.
Carter visited Cuba in May 2002 meeting with Fidel Castro and becoming the first President of the United States, in or out of office, to visit the island since Castro's 1959 revolution.
Not all Carter's efforts have gained him favor in Washington; President Clinton and both Presidents Bush were said to have been less than pleased with Carter's "free-lance" diplomacy in Iraq and elsewhere.
Carter was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 2002 for his decades of untiring effort to find peaceful solutions to international conflicts, to advance democracy and human rights, and to promote economic and social development. He was the third president, after Theodore Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson , to receive the award.
In March 2004 Carter roundly condemned George W. Bush and Tony Blair for waging an unnecessary war "based upon lies and misinterpretations" in order to oust Saddam Hussein . He claimed that Blair had allowed his better judgement to be swayed by Bush's desire to finish a war that his father had started.
He and his wife are also well-known for their work with Habitat for Humanity .
http://www.usa-presidents.info/carter.htm
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indra
ONE love, blood, life
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President Carter-Bush Exploited 9/11
Well, DUH! Of course, they are. Does anyone honestly think Bush would have a snowball's chance in Hell of being elected if 9/11 hadn't happened? His administration has been riding for all it's worth from the moment it happened.
Well, DUH! Of course, they are. Does anyone honestly think Bush would have a snowball's chance in Hell of being elected if 9/11 hadn't happened? His administration has been riding for all it's worth from the moment it happened.
hiphop
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
nbcrusader said:
nbcrusader said:
nbcrusader, I remember you a year or two ago.. you weren´t that shamelessly extreme in your self-contradictions. What has happened to your open mind?
No offense there, I am seriously wondering. Has someone washed your brain? All I hear from you is that kind of manipulative one sentence statements.
I respected you as a good discussion partner with a few valid points to make, but I haven´t seen any of that in the last months. Please change your style.
OP
OP
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
Please don't fight..
nbcrusader
Blue Crack Addict
Although I prefer to discuss the principles behind the issues, it seems that many of these election related threads turn into partisian lob fests. If you want more in-depth discussion of issues, I'm all for it.
Given the number of brief posts made in this forum by the various participants, I wonder why mine get your attention?
Given the number of brief posts made in this forum by the various participants, I wonder why mine get your attention?
nbcrusader
Blue Crack Addict
anitram said:
Consider the context of my comment before you start calling people ignorant. Hiphop was referring to the Coulter thread and implying that the sensationalistic writing of the Guardian could be done for revenue generation (suggesting I would agree with his statement). I would agree with Hiphop if the Guardian was in the business of sensationalistic headlines (in the same vein as the Inquirer).
Since the Guardian is not, it appears that there are some sick
writing for the Guardian.For Hiphop to tie the two quotes, taken from separate threads and in different context, was misleading.
nbcrusader
Blue Crack Addict
anitram said:
I think your statement speaks for itself and what it implies. Thank you.
hiphop
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
nbcrusader said:
I don´t care for partisan fests. I am not going to the election, I am not really in love and in bed with Kerry, I just think he´s the better choice - and "better" is already mixed with a grain of cynicism, I´d rather say "not the worst choice of all".
Your post got my attention because you were contradicting yourself - "From the paper that wants to bring back presidential assassination.... " and "it is sensationalism to sell papers".
I could have replied to Headache too, because I think it is a shame that he tells a former U.S. President to fuck off. I wonder if he would have the nerve to tell this to Carter personally. I doubt it. But I can just speak for myself - if Bush wanted to invite me for supper to talk about foreign policy, I would definitely go there. I would be very nice. However, I think it´s not gonna happen.
Anyway, you can see that this potential reply to Headache would have been complicated and kind of vague, so I decided to leave it at that: instead I chose to post some facts about Carter´s political victories and mistakes. So maybe even Headache realizes that Carter was a U.S. President and therefore he should be, well,... respected? by U.S. citizens up to a certain point.
Anyway, I agree with most of the other posters. So there is no reason to post and say "I agree" - if I always did that, I would have 10,000 posts, not 4,000.
I am always for in-depth discussion about issues.
There´s no need to think I "picked you" because you are conservative and I am a Christian "leftist". I picked your post because I had interesting discussions with you in the past.
The whole BS of American society divided into two parts is very interesting for me, because it might lead to a critical mass - and Americans never were that critical before. I see a great new quality arising, there are many open-minded Americans who openly question the policies of their leaders.
But generally, I don´t flame conservatives for being conservative. It´s just too low-key for my intellectual qualities. I am not a Moore type who makes fun of his opponents. However, I appreciate Moore´s recherche. I read the Guardian just as much as the Economist, if I want to. I´m all for Bono speaking out in behalf of Africans, but I take the right to critisize him when he does too many "rockstar" - remarks. Call me what you want, I make up my own mind.
I guess ultimately I picked you because I want you to find back to your quality of serious, informed discussion.
I am worried. I don´t know who´s been fooling with your mind in the last months - I just assume it´s the heated political climate. Not Interference at all, but real life. Maybe you´ve been supporting your party and you heard so much anti-anti crap that you start to adopt the same way of argumenting.
Mind you, that´s just an uninformed assumption! You don´t need to defend yourself, I am not attacking you! Maybe it´s all different, and you are just sick of going round explaining your view, and prefer to be short and clear about your preferences - after all, who needs arguments - you got your leader.
Since I consider you a nice person to talk to, I just wanted to warn you. To give your argumentation a little push in the right direction, away from party rhetorics.
I would have preferred to write the reply to your question in a private message, but I am not premium. Sorry for that.
hiphop
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
Just a little add-on: I never read the Inquirer, so I assumed it was a serious conservative newspaper. Hah!
nbcrusader
Blue Crack Addict
Hiphop,
I appreciate you comments. I guess there is something to be said for jumping into the conversations less frequently. I find that my time on the board is directly related to the amount of pressure at work - more pressure, more posting. Doesn't make sense, really, other than that is the way my brain works. Being in the "minority" leaves me with fewer opportunities to say "I agree".
In the real world, I am mostly apolitical and have never contributed to a party or a political cause. I'd rather spend time with family, friends, church, etc. than work on a campaign and would rather give money to better causes than politics.
When I do jump into the frey, I hope to simply challenge the conventional wisdom or popular thought of the moment. Sometimes it turns into a good discussion on principle. With the election, it has not been the case as often.
Regarding American society, I think we have always been critical of our leaders (Johnson & Nixon especially). Technology has only increased the intensity of the discussion, bringing more people into instant touch with information and beliefs.
I appreciate you comments. I guess there is something to be said for jumping into the conversations less frequently. I find that my time on the board is directly related to the amount of pressure at work - more pressure, more posting. Doesn't make sense, really, other than that is the way my brain works. Being in the "minority" leaves me with fewer opportunities to say "I agree".
In the real world, I am mostly apolitical and have never contributed to a party or a political cause. I'd rather spend time with family, friends, church, etc. than work on a campaign and would rather give money to better causes than politics.
When I do jump into the frey, I hope to simply challenge the conventional wisdom or popular thought of the moment. Sometimes it turns into a good discussion on principle. With the election, it has not been the case as often.
Regarding American society, I think we have always been critical of our leaders (Johnson & Nixon especially). Technology has only increased the intensity of the discussion, bringing more people into instant touch with information and beliefs.
nbcrusader
Blue Crack Addict
whenhiphopdrovethebigcars said:
If you want the latest on Bigfoot sightings (a Yeti like creature of the Pacific Northwest), the Inquirer is for you!
nbcrusader
Blue Crack Addict
anitram said:Hey, if that's what floats your boat, I will not raise an objection.
Well, if that's the way you play, so be it.
drivemytrabant
War Child
I think the President has every right to bring to light what is a defining moment of his Presidency and this country. But this is just my opinion.
All I will say is:
I LOVE JIMMY CARTER - one of the most truthful and compassinate politicians EVER in the USA and a man of the utmost personal INTEGRITY and DEEP FAITH.
A man who won't steer you wrong -
Thanks Mrs. Springsteen - UP BRUCE!
I LOVE JIMMY CARTER - one of the most truthful and compassinate politicians EVER in the USA and a man of the utmost personal INTEGRITY and DEEP FAITH.
A man who won't steer you wrong -
Thanks Mrs. Springsteen - UP BRUCE!
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