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Old 02-10-2004, 08:50 AM   #46
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LOL Moonlight--I think it was the Tom Cruise (isn't that who that is?) avatar. Shoulda figured a guy wouldn't have that.

Dread, you're rocking this thread! Well argued!

Antriram, let me say a few things that might clear up my last post, since it doesn't seem like I was clear. First, by "you" I didn't mean YOU you, I mean "someone". Sounds like you heard me referring to you you. I you know what I mean.

Secondly, I wrote specifically with the upcoming US election in mind. It's silly to say I'm aruging you can't complain about American politics if you're German and didn't vote. No one in Germany can vote in a US election- duh. And as for my statement coming from the "Poor Gore" camp, that's incorrect. I've heard and made the same arguement long before the 2000 elections.

I'm so glad to hear you're commited to civic involvement, and in politically ravaged or grossly corrupt situations (such as it sounds like you might have been in? not sure what you're story is exactly, but I'd love to hear it) I can totally see your point about not voting. For example, I can't imagine choosing in the elections in say, Bosnia/the Balkans. But generally, I think it's laziness and cynicism to not vote. And again, I think it only serves to preserve the system that the non-voter wants to change. If you're going to abstain from voting, ask yourself what tangible good will really come from it? Are you prepared to take whatever the government hands out? (Again, not YOU you, everyone you). I know I'm not.

Finally, you mention preeching to the choir. Glad to hear it. Doesn't sound like our positions are that far apart, then, really.



sd

Moonlight, and Mofo--CONGRATS!
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Old 02-10-2004, 09:35 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sherry Darling
LOL Moonlight--I think it was the Tom Cruise (isn't that who that is?) avatar. Shoulda figured a guy wouldn't have that.
LOL, yeah. .

Quote:
Originally posted by Sherry Darling
I'm so glad to hear you're commited to civic involvement, and in politically ravaged or grossly corrupt situations (such as it sounds like you might have been in? not sure what you're story is exactly, but I'd love to hear it) I can totally see your point about not voting. For example, I can't imagine choosing in the elections in say, Bosnia/the Balkans.
Exactly. I can definitely understand that, too. And as long as people still find ways to get involved otherwise, that's cool.

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Originally posted by Sherry Darling
But generally, I think it's laziness and cynicism to not vote.
Definitely. And it's even more of a shame when you consider that the 2000 election just added to a lot of people's cynicism.

Quote:
Originally posted by Sherry Darling
And again, I think it only serves to preserve the system that the non-voter wants to change. If you're going to abstain from voting, ask yourself what tangible good will really come from it? Are you prepared to take whatever the government hands out? (Again, not YOU you, everyone you). I know I'm not.
Neither am I. My dad and I have talked about this kind of thing before, and through all our talks, the same point keeps coming up, that being that so many problems in this country could be solved if more and more people would vote each year. It'd make the government more likely to take us seriously and more likely to actually do some of the things we want them to do. Right now, they tend to listen to the far right and far left, 'cause those are the ones who make the most noise, and the ones who get out and vote so often. Those of us in the middle don't have much of a voice right now, because there's a good number of us who don't go out and vote and make noise and everything. But if more and more of us did that stuff, that'd certainly help a great deal.

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Moonlight, and Mofo--CONGRATS!
Thanks. .

Angela
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Old 02-10-2004, 04:51 PM   #48
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I can totally see your point about not voting. For example, I can't imagine choosing in the elections in say, Bosnia/the Balkans.
That's my story.
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Old 02-10-2004, 05:37 PM   #49
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We should be grateful that we CAN vote. Think of all the people who don't have that right. We should vote to honor those who can't, if not for ourselves.
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Old 02-10-2004, 06:49 PM   #50
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P.S. Hi Fernando! How are ya?

Doing well thank you!
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Old 02-10-2004, 07:43 PM   #51
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That's my story.


sd
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Old 02-10-2004, 08:10 PM   #52
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That's my story.
OMG. I understand completely. I wouldn't vote for any of those bastards either.
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Old 02-10-2004, 08:31 PM   #53
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i would urge people if they are not satisfied with either the democratic or republican that instead of not voting to vote for a third party candidate (greens are the most prominent liberal party and the reform party is the most prominant conservative). I know that there is no chance that either one will win this election but if they get 5% of the vote they get federal campaign funding which will make them more viable in following elections. it's the only way that i can seen to break up the two party system and get some more diversity and competition in there.


this will be my first presidential election too, i was 3 weeks too young last time
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Old 02-11-2004, 09:45 AM   #54
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I agree with anitram. I don't like Bush, but I don't like Kerry either and I don't see much difference between the two major parties. I will be voting third party this year.
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Old 02-11-2004, 01:14 PM   #55
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I'm glad you're going to vote meeganie. That's the important thing. Both my younger sisters voted for Nader in 2000. I do not agree with the that he cost Gore the election. That's just playing the blame game.
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Old 02-11-2004, 08:53 PM   #56
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Originally posted by najeena
We should be grateful that we CAN vote. Think of all the people who don't have that right. We should vote to honor those who can't, if not for ourselves.
Exactly. I also want to vote as a way of thanking all the women who fought to give me the right to do this.

That, and it's just cool to know that I now have a say in how my country's run. I like that feeling.

Angela
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Old 02-11-2004, 09:16 PM   #57
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Exactly. I also want to vote as a way of thanking all the women who fought to give me the right to do this.
Angela
Excellent point. Look at all of the women around the world who don't have this right in 2004. It's hard to imagine, but indeed our female ancestors didn't have this right.
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Old 02-11-2004, 11:30 PM   #58
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I'm glad you're going to vote meeganie. That's the important thing. Both my younger sisters voted for Nader in 2000. I do not agree with the that he cost Gore the election. That's just playing the blame game.
I agree verte. Gore lost because he was a crappy candidate. Nader got what? 1 or 2 percent? If Gore had done a decent job Nader wouldn't have had any affect on him at all. We should be blaming Gore for losing so many moderate votes and leaving the left uninterested in voting.
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Old 02-12-2004, 03:27 AM   #59
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Saddam's failure to VERIFIABLY DISARM was seen as an intolerable danger and I agree that it was.
Sting, Sting, Sting.

I've done a little research, stat checking, and the results show that you have mentioned this 243,787 times over the past 10 months in over 300 threads.

But do you honestly, HONESTLY believe, deep down, that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld etc etc went to war against Iraq to defend the sanctity of UN resolutions?

There are many people (myself included) who agree with, or simply can't argue with what you say above (not the intolerable danger part, but the 'verifiably disarm' part), but they also believe that there is a snowflakes chance in hell that that was why the US did it. They don't give a shit about the UN or it's resolutions and you know it. They only went for the last 2 because of pressure from PM Blair, PM Howard (because their countries were 90%+ against a war, dropping to 'only' 60-70%+ if it was with a UN backing) and Powell.

Surely you can see that. It doesn't make your argument null and void in anyway, it's just that I don't think you can defend their actions by saying they were just doing as the UN resolutions said they could/should/needed to. If they had a singular vote "should we go to war over it" it would never have passed. If they did in the Security Council, we know it would have been blocked by at least one country. If they did it in the General Assembly to get a true world vote, say with a 2/3 majority (as standard in situations like that) then the US would have been hammered over it. You know it.

All I'm saying is, the words in those UN Resolutions are good and true, but that doesn't mean that's what they were fighting for.
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Old 02-12-2004, 07:05 AM   #60
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Originally posted by TylerDurden

I've done a little research, stat checking, and the results show that you have mentioned this 243,787 times over the past 10 months in over 300 threads.
You missed one....
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