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Old 04-15-2004, 12:23 PM   #31
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how come i don't see anyone fighting for bill clinton or george h.w. bush to also admit to their own failures in leading up to 9/11? if W has to take part of the blame, then certainly they must as well.
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Old 04-15-2004, 12:31 PM   #32
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yes, if they were asked what their part in it was they should also adsmit they are partly at fault

which has nothing to do with Bush his performance during the press conference though

unless I missed something and Clinton was there anyway checking out the ladies or something
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Old 04-15-2004, 12:49 PM   #33
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i heard bill thinks condy's quite the looker
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Old 04-15-2004, 12:52 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
how come i don't see anyone fighting for bill clinton or george h.w. bush to also admit to their own failures in leading up to 9/11? if W has to take part of the blame, then certainly they must as well.
How right you are! It's easy to blaime only the ones who are dealing with the problem at the moment! But the responsibilities start in the past!

And now, also kidnapped people, mostly civil, are dying -- it's unberable! I just HOPE we will find a way out!

To you all, please PRAY LOUDER!! (U2 SONGS ARE PERFECT FOR THAT!)
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Old 04-15-2004, 12:53 PM   #35
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Clinton screwed up, no question. Part of the problem was politics, though. When he was elected in 1992, the political atmosphere was that of the post-Cold War era, the era that there was a "peace dividend" because of the notion that since the Berlin Wall was down and Moscow was the capital of Russia and not the Soviet Union, there was not a foreign "threat". Now we realize how naive that was, but honestly, in 1992 no one in hell dreamed of the nightmare that would happen nine years later in New York, not even Bush Sr, who was a national security ace but not exactly omniscient. The problem with the whole "blame game" is that much of this stuff is hindsight and let's face it, politics. It just goes to show much the political atmosphere changes, and you can't freeze a status quo, no matter how much you'd like to. I think some lefties also want to freeze the status quo of the pre 9/11 world. Personally, after the attack I felt like I needed to refresh my views about national security, and maybe change them. Some of these ideas that cling to the pre 9/11 view of national/international security are dangerously unilateral in themselves, I think. Call me confused. But don't say I'm not willing to condemn the Clinton Administration for stuff they did under their watch. It's just that you practically needed a crystal ball *not* to screw up in hindsight. Hindsight is 20/20. Foresight is not unless you're God.
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Old 04-15-2004, 01:05 PM   #36
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Honestly, we could look all the way back to the Carter Administration, when the strength of the CIA's intelligence gathering abilities were severly diminished.
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Old 04-15-2004, 01:15 PM   #37
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Honestly, we could look all the way back to the Carter Administration, when the strength of the CIA's intelligence gathering abilities were severly diminished.
Absolutely. At that time it was viewed as "cleaning up" the "mess" made by the Nixon Administration in their Vietnam policy. But now we know that this stuff was damaging in itself. People need to stop trying to make a very complex situation simple. It's *not* simple.
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Old 04-15-2004, 02:05 PM   #38
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I think questioning about mistakes is legitime.
We should remember that this administration told the UN that they can do nation building quicker, better, cheaper (D. Rumsfeld).
Now we have to find out that even Mr. Bremer's security is ensured by private soldiers (Control Risk Group, Triple Canopy, Blackwater Security Consulting) and Mr. G.W.Bush is playing Golf.
8 months of holiday for a president of a nation who is at war is at least "interesting"
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Old 04-15-2004, 02:37 PM   #39
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what exactly is interesting about him playing golf? i'm dying to hear this one... yes, american's are at war and dying, and yes george bush played a few rounds of golf... why exactly is that a problem? bush can't even take his mind off things with a nice leisurely activity now? shit... the game of baseball was invented as a way to take troops minds off war for a a few hours back in the civil war. bob hope entertained millions of troops at USO shows, while at the same time as his performances, troops who weren't at the show were dying in the rice fields of vietnam. why in the bluest of blue friggin hells is it all of a sudden a problem if george w. friggin bush plays a gosh darned round of golf?!?!@?!
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Old 04-15-2004, 02:46 PM   #40
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Presidents play golf?!?

In our era of instant gratification, we should remember how long it takes to establish or re-establish nations.
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Old 04-15-2004, 02:51 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
what exactly is interesting about him playing golf? i'm dying to hear this one... yes, american's are at war and dying, and yes george bush played a few rounds of golf... why exactly is that a problem? bush can't even take his mind off things with a nice leisurely activity now? shit... the game of baseball was invented as a way to take troops minds off war for a a few hours back in the civil war. bob hope entertained millions of troops at USO shows, while at the same time as his performances, troops who weren't at the show were dying in the rice fields of vietnam. why in the bluest of blue friggin hells is it all of a sudden a problem if george w. friggin bush plays a gosh darned round of golf?!?!@?!
The point is he's taken more vacation than any president and he's at war. That's odd you can't gloss that over and act like it's not. If you want a leader you want someone who's taking an active role and when you see his vacation schedule you have to ask what kind of role is he taking and where would we be if he hadn't taken so much freaking vacation.
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Old 04-15-2004, 03:26 PM   #42
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It was the Presidents decision to go to war (i don't want to debate now if that decision was right or wrong in this thread).
He sent verry good and honest soldiers to iraq and knew some of them will die down there, far from their families and beloved.

There are leaders who want to be with their troops and maybe risk their life in doing so, there are leaders who work as hard and do what they can do when they are at war...
..and there are leaders who enjoy holiday and play golf.
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Old 04-15-2004, 03:31 PM   #43
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I wouldn't necessarily call GWB's time in Crawford as "vacation". He isn't taking a break from his job like we do.

Bush uses Texas retreat as diplomacy central

Quote:
CRAWFORD, Texas Like Monday's meeting between President Bush and Egypt's President Hosni Mubarak, get-togethers by world leaders at the Bush ranch rarely end in important announcements. But sometimes the fruits of a visit are seen weeks or months later
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Old 04-15-2004, 04:11 PM   #44
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Even if parts of his vacations are "working," he still gets--and takes--far more *paid* vacations than does the average American.
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Old 04-15-2004, 04:15 PM   #45
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And gets paid far less (especially per hour) than the average Fortune 500 executive.
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