Poverty Does NOT Breed Terrorism

[A_Wanderer]

Freedom squelches terrorist violence
KSG associate professor researches freedom-terrorism link
By Alvin Powell
Harvard News Office

A John F. Kennedy School of Government researcher has cast doubt on the widely held belief that terrorism stems from poverty, finding instead that terrorist violence is related to a nation's level of political freedom.

Associate Professor of Public Policy Alberto Abadie examined data on terrorism and variables such as wealth, political freedom, geography, and ethnic fractionalization for nations that have been targets of terrorist attacks.

Alberto Abadie: 'In the past, we heard people refer to the strong link between terrorism and poverty, but ... when you look at the data, it's not there. This is true not only for events of international terrorism ... but ... also for the overall level of terrorism, both of domestic and of foreign origin.'

http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2004/11.04/05-terror.html

hopefully that can help destroy this meme about terrorism being the wests fault because of the inequality in the world. I am not saying that the west is not responsible for inequality but I am saying that attempting to lump terrorism with that problem is dishonest. An interesting conclusion of Abadie’s study is that terrorism reaches its highest levels in states that are making the transition to democratic governments.

 

[U2democrat]

http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2004/11.04/05-terror.html

hopefully that can help destroy this meme about terrorism being the wests fault because of the inequality in the world. I am not saying that the west is not responsible for inequality but I am saying that attempting to lump terrorism with that problem is dishonest. An interesting conclusion of Abadie’s study is that terrorism reaches its highest levels in states that are making the transition to democratic governments.

*gasp* are you saying that Iraq is a breeding ground for terrorists?? I never would have guessed!

(PS-that sarcasm wasn't meant as a swipe at you, A_Wanderer)

 

[A_Wanderer]

None taken, if Saddam was in power there would be fewer terrorists in Iraq - so if one were to take the paleocon realist position then we should just screw everybody else and put more bloodthirsty dictators in power. The other school of thought could be that increasing the levels of political freedom reduces terrorism but during the transition there will be an increase in terrorism. Or we could attempt to use economic measures to open up societies, we could have rewarded Saddam Hussein to liberalise in exchange for lifting sanctions and within the framework of the multilateral UN an Iraq with a benign dictator could exist and less people would die and everything would be great.I disagree strongly with option III, there is no way that Saddam would be willing to surrender power willingly, assassination would have been a good option though.

 

[U2democrat]

Damn this world is difficult. I hate to see my niece being born in a time like this. I can only hope things will get better, and I'll do anything in my power to make things better.

 

[U2Kitten]

If poverty bred terrorists, everyone in my neighborhood would be wearing suicide belts. I don't see any.

 

[U2democrat]

If poverty bred terrorists, everyone in my neighborhood would be wearing suicide belts. I don't see any.

Well that's good...sort of....

However you don't normally see well-off people blowing themselves to bits.

 

[anitram]

Poverty doesn't breed terrorism, it breeds despair.

The first world has a whole lot to answer for, IMO, because it is collectively responsible for sowing the seeds of poverty throughout the world. I don't believe that Communism was the greatest evil that killed the most people, I believe it is clear that Colonialism did that, and that the effects of colonialism throughout the second and third world are debilitating to this day, with people languishing and do we give enough of a damn?

 

[verte76]

The notion that dictatorship causes terrorism does make sense. You're squelching peaceful political expression, a right we in the U.S. and other democracies take for granted. I might not like the government, but guess what? I don't *have* to. In a free society you're under no obligation to *like* the government. Of course you have to obey certain laws, but opposition political parties and such are not illegal. I'm allowed to talk about the government without having to worry about getting busted for illegal political activities. In a political environment where you get killed or imprisoned based on your opposition to the government, you get extremism and terrorism. I would argue that poverty *can* create terrorism in that some guy with money, like bin Laden, can wave paychecks in their faces if they come along for the ride. But if you have hope and can work to make your life better, you're not likely to join the local terror squad out of sheer desperation. But that's not the only scenario. If you have hope you have a light at the end of the tunnel. When you give up hope, that's when you're going to think about becoming a terrorist.

 

[A_Wanderer]

We don't; but Israeli's do - suicide bombers have higher than average family incomes for Palestinians, the 9/11 hijackers were all well off individuals who had the money to spend time in the west and recieve education, Khalid Sheik Mohammed lived a lavish lifestyle all over the Asia in the 1990's. Being an international terrorist costs money, those that can afford to travel to Afghanistan or Iraq for training and run operations are neither poor nor ignorant.

 

[U2Kitten]

However you don't normally see well-off people blowing themselves to bits.

Muhammad Atta who flew a plane into the WTC was the son a very wealthy doctor. Also Osama himself is a billionaire, but he's not blowing himself up, he gets others to do that for him. Maybe one day they'll catch on and tell him to practice what he preaches!

 

[Irvine511]

you're right, it's not poverty, but it is another single word: humiliation.

 

[Jamila]

Why does it always have to be one way ir the other?

There are MANY reasons for terrorism and many different breeding grounds for it.

In some parts of the world it may be dictatorial regimes, in others the despair and anger that comes from extreme poverty.

Why do we always have to be so narrow-minded in looking at the complex issues in our world?

I think it would do us well to look at a wide variety of options since human nature is complex.

 

[verte76]

I would say that there are some psychological pre-dispositions for becoming a terrorist. The person can indeed come from a wealthy family and have all sorts of privileges. In some cases, unfortunately, it's the Wahhabist brand of Islam that is taught in too many schools across the Middle East and around the world, with its emphasis on jihad as holy war. In some cases it is a case of being poor *and* having a certain mindset about poverty and its causes, and being willing to accept paychecks from people like bin Laden. There's nothing simple about the reasons why people become terrorists. There's no one reason why this happens. It's complex.

 

[nbcrusader]

Why does it always have to be one way ir the other?

There are MANY reasons for terrorism and many different breeding grounds for it.

In some parts of the world it may be dictatorial regimes, in others the despair and anger that comes from extreme poverty.

Why do we always have to be so narrow-minded in looking at the complex issues in our world?

I think it would do us well to look at a wide variety of options since human nature is complex.

This isn't a matter of being narrow-minded. Study was done to look at the contributing factors to terrorism. This is specifically the result of looking at a wide variety of options.

 

[U2Kitten]

If it were poverty, why are all those poor sick starving Africans Bono helps not terrorists? If it's only caused by hatred for the rich, why are the terrorists not targeting the royal family of Saudi Arabia? It's not money, it's cultural and religious reasons.

 

[Sherry Darling]

you're right, it's not poverty, but it is another single word: humiliation.

Bingo! That's what all teh empircal studies I have seen in my conflict program at GMU have shown. Poverty plays a part because it allows groups like AQ to move in easily, but in and of itself, it does not "cause" terrorism.

It's important to make a distinction between poverty and relative poverty--which ties back into the humiliation/shame that Irvine mentioned.

SD

 

[Anirban]

i think another factor is that the culture of terrorism breeds more terrorism. i'm sure there are many kids in eastern europe, the middle east, southeast asia, etc. that grow up thinking that terrorism is a part of everyday life. when something is seen as common, i bet it is easier to justify its use. kinda sad to think about it that way...

 

[Irvine511]

Bingo! That's what all teh empircal studies I have seen in my conflict program at GMU have shown. Poverty plays a part because it allows groups like AQ to move in easily, but in and of itself, it does not "cause" terrorism.

It's important to make a distinction between poverty and relative poverty--which ties back into the humiliation/shame that Irvine mentioned.

SD

yes, absolutely! and a shout out to NoVA -- -- i have just moved into DC, but spent the last 18 months living in Falls Church and then Vienna (right next to Tyson's). my old roommate (and still best friend) is finishing up school at GMU. i've used the library there several times.

the point about relative poverty is excellent. on balance, Palestinians have a much higher standard of living when compared to, say, Afghanis. however, the reason for the rise of the Palestinian suicide bomber is the sense of humiliation (and other things, but let's stick with this one factor for now) the young man (and now woman) feels when compared to the strong economic might, free press, high standard of living, and overall success of Israel. it's all about the direct comparison.

 

[verte76]

That's an excellent point about humiliation. It's the psychological element that pushes alot of people over the edge into desperation. Sad but true.

 

[Jamila]

Actually Bono has continually alluded to the fact that the extreme poverty and desparation that increasing numbers of Africans are living in, especially the orphaned children left behind by AIDS, are PRIME TARGETS to become the new terrorot threats in coming years.

We all know his Colin Powell quote of how the struggle against terrorism is bound up in the struggle against poverty and we have all heard him say that the Bush Administration (the CIA to be exact) thinks that htere are at least TEN states in Africa that have the chaotic situations in them, partly because of poverty/despair and religious/ethnic conflicts going on inside them that are ready to explode.

And that explosion worries the CIA that it might be channeled into international terrorist organizations (there was an article about this around 6 months ago on Yahoo, but I can't find it now).

So. no matter what "experts" research might show, common sense says that extreme poverty is a part of the terrorist picture.

Like Bob Marley said "A HUNGRY MAN IS AN ANGRY MAN".

Who can disagree with that?

 

[kobayashi]

Associate Professor of Public Policy Alberto Abadie examined data on terrorism and variables such as wealth, political freedom, geography, and ethnic fractionalization for nations that have been targets of terrorist attacks.

am i the only one confused by the scope of this study?

'nations that have been targets of terrorist attacks' are not also the breeding and training ground for the terrorists who carry out the attacks.

wouldn't the study best be focused on the region where the terrorist was recruited and had his terrorist skills honed?

 

[Irvine511]

Actually Bono has continually alluded to the fact that the extreme poverty and desparation that increasing numbers of Africans are living in, especially the orphaned children left behind by AIDS, are PRIME TARGETS to become the new terrorot threats in coming years.

We all know his Colin Powell quote of how the struggle against terrorism is bound up in the struggle against poverty and we have all heard him say that the Bush Administration (the CIA to be exact) thinks that htere are at least TEN states in Africa that have the chaotic situations in them, partly because of poverty/despair and religious/ethnic conflicts going on inside them that are ready to explode.

i generally agree with you, but what most people point to -- and as was the case in afghanistan, and as the lovely Sherry Darling pointed out -- failed states with extreme poverty are easier for a terrorist organization like Al Qaeda to move into and set up camp. Al Qaeda wasn't drawing their troops from the Afghani population, but from the larger Arab world, especially those from the Gulf where the most oppressive Arab regimes are in charge. these are humiliated young men with low standards of living (in comparison to their governments), high unemployment, and a religion that keeps women under lock-and-key so they can't even get laid. seriously. do you think the idea of "17 virgins" awaiting a martyer in heaven is incidental?

Africa represents more of a place for terrorists organizations to set up camp, not necessarily draw from the local population. at least for now. it remains to be seen exactly what strand of Islam will spread throughout the African contienent over the next generation.

 

[Se7en]

Re: Re: Poverty Does NOT Breed Terrorism

am i the only one confused by the scope of this study?

'nations that have been targets of terrorist attacks' are not also the breeding and training ground for the terrorists who carry out the attacks.

wouldn't the study best be focused on the region where the terrorist was recruited and had his terrorist skills honed?

interesting observation, iron chef kobe.

i just hope this little study doesn't begin some sort of trend where people disregard economic egalitarianism in favor of americanized democracy when trying to help less fortunate countries. give 'em democracy and let 'em rot. at least they will get to vote and not be terrorists.

 

[U2Kitten]

At the risk of being attacked for being non PC, I don't believe the subsaharan Africans are likely at all to become Al Queda type terrorists. It is not their lifestyle or their culture as it is among many middle eastern Islamic extremist people. Sorry, bash me all you want, that's where the terrorists are coming from.

Another thing on poverty and terrorism- why are the hillbillies of Appalachia not terrorists? What about poor Mexicans and Central Americans who grow up in those slums you see on Save the Children commercials? Nope, terrorists are *gasp* middle eastern Arab Islamic extremists. (not all Arabs or middle easterners or Muslims are terrorists, of course, but most terrorists are Arab Islamic middle easterners, sorry, hate me, flame me, it doesn't change the facts.)

Poverty is a sad and common fact of life in much of the world, yet the Al Queda type terrorists come from only one region and culture. Coincidence? I think not.

 

[U2Kitten]

One more thing on the cultural/religious thing here: a person who believes that they will be blowing themself up and going to glory can be convinced to become a terrorist. Some middle eastern Arab Muslims (note I said SOME ) are of this belief, mindset and culture, so they will possibly do it.

But look at the poor in America, South and Central America too. What do they want? A better life, hope for the future, a cool car, a nice house, fun electronic stuff. They don't want to die, they want to LIVE and dream! So you aren't going to convince them to blow themselves up for a cause. Also the subsaharan Africans believe in life, happiness, family, not death to themselves and others! So it is very much a cultural and belief system thing, not a monetary one.

While some poor youths in the Americas have turned to the drug culture to get money and may end up getting shot, they don't ever really think it, it's all about the bling bling (or in some case just supporting kids) and not about any cause or glory or martyrdom. There is a huge difference.

 

[diamond]

i have always said envy and hate breed terrorism.

db9

 

[U2Kitten]

I don't believe it's 'envy' at all because they don't want what we have, they don't want to be like us. They hate everything we stand for and want to destroy us. So hate, yes, envy, no way.

 

[Flying FuManchu]

I think its different for each person...

 

[DrTeeth]

Here's an interesting article (quite a long read though).

 

[withashout]

Terrorism has been around a lot longer than this "war on terror".

It has even existed in places that are supposed to be "against" terrorism. Take for example the lynchings of African-Americans in America's recent past by the KKK (ultimately a "terrorist" organization) and other groups. The black Panthers were labeled "terrorists" in their time. What about the Weather Underground? Doesn't mean these and other groups didn't stand for human rights (I'm no longer talking about the KKK here), although their methods may have unsound.

The point is that "terrorists" are used as pawns by people who have power. And usually the powerful have wealth.

The other point to consider is that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter (eg. the Contras in Nicaragua; the mujahedeen in Afghanistan) depending on which side you stand. Even the Boston Tea Party was viewed by England as a terrorist incident. It's all relative.