Pot: it can't be that great...right?

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Lilly

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A regularly intelligent friend of mine smokes pot. In January she did it 5 out of 9 days. I'm not a pot smoker because I don't believe I should be a) doing drugs when I don't even know what I'm doing with full consciousness and b) supporting America's drug culture. Well, I told her that it was stupid and whatnot. But she kept it up, THEN tried to hide it from me, which didn't work at all. She is sacrificing all of her potential for fucking weed. I have since distanced myself from her greatly and now she says she's clean because she chooses to be, but I don't believe her. But my question here is, is pot really that great? That you would sacrifice your friends for it? Not just any friend, someone who used to be your best friend? For getting high?

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It's the puppets that pull the strings.

*You're very kind. Most people laugh when they see my googly eye.*

+fabulous+

The Edge, it's a direct object.
 
CLAIM #11:
MARIJUANA PRODUCES AN AMOTIVATIONAL SYNDROME

Marijuana is said to have a deleterious effect on society by making users passive, apathetic, unproductive, and unable or unwilling to fulfill their responsibilities.

THE FACTS

The concept of an amotivational syndrome first appeared in the late 1960s, as marijuana use was increasing among American youth. In the years since, despite the absence of an agreed-upon definition of the concept, numerous researchers have attempted to verify its occurrence.

Large-scale studies of high school students have generally found no difference in grade-point averages between marijuana users and non-users. One study found lower grades among students reported to be daily users of marijuana, but the authors failed to identify a causal relationship and concluded that both phenomena were part of a complex of inter-related social and emotional problems.

In one longitudinal study of college students, after controlling for other factors, marijuana users were found to have higher grades than non-users and to be equally as likely to successfully complete their educations. Another study found that marijuana users in college scored higher than non-users on standardized "achievement values" scales.

Field studies conducted in Jamaica, Costa Rica and Greece also found no evidence of an amotivational syndrome marijuana-using populations.

In these samples of working-class males, the educational and employment records of marijuana users were, for the most part, similar to those of non-users. In fact, in Jamaica, marijuana was often smoked during working hours as an aid to productivity.
The results of laboratory studies have been nearly as consistent.

In one study lasting 94 days, marijuana had no significant impact on learning, performance or motivation.

In another 31-day study, subjects given marijuana worked more hours than controls and turned in an equal number of tokens for cash at the study's completion.

However, in a Canadian study that required subjects in the marijuana group to consume unusually high doses, some reduction in work efficiency was noted in the days following intoxication.

Undoubtedly, when marijuana is used in a way that produces near-constant intoxication, other activities are 1ikely to be neglected.
However, the weight of scientific evidence suggests that there is nothing in the pharmacological properties of cannabis that alter people's attitudes, values, or abilities regarding work.

From marijuana.com.



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The wind will crack in winter time
No spoken words, just a scream


My Lair
 
Well your friend could have easily become addicted to alchol or gambling or any other thing. There grade most likely would slip.

Hate pot?

Hate alchol, gambling, niccotine, caffine?

Many, many post secondary students drink alot. I know from experience. Does that automatically make them people that are less then someone that doesnt?

I smoked pot last night. First time since Nov. it was fun. I feel fine now. And will tommorow, and i'll be at school on monday and will see my friends toinght

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Running to Stand Still-"you gotta cry without weeping, talk without speaking, scream without raising your voice."

"we're not burning out we're burning up...we're the loudest folk band in the world!"-Bono
 
pot sucks. don't even try to convince me otherwise.

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you bury your treasure where it can't be found, but your love is like a secret that's been passed around...
ME!
 
While I neither smoke pot nor drink on a regular basis, I do both recreationally. I have come to the conclusion that drinking gives me hangovers, which makes me miserable, sick to my stomach, tired and irritable. On the other hand, when I smoke pot, I wake up feeling BETTER than usual the next morning.

I don't think I've smoked pot enough to have any really strong feelings about it, except that for me, it's been completely harmless. Why alcohol is legal and pot isn't will confuse me forever.

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If you cannot live together in here, you cannot live together out there, let me tell ya. --Bono

You've got to cry without weeping, talk without speaking, scream without raising your voice... --Bono
 
Originally posted by Sicy:
Have you smoked it before Khanada?

i'd rather not get into it, but...no. and i never intend on trying it. ever.

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you bury your treasure where it can't be found, but your love is like a secret that's been passed around...
ME!
 
is your friend a bad or inferior person now, or is it the morality issue? what exactly? [I'm just trying to understand why you are ending your friendship with her, I'm sure she didnt say "I'll start smoking pot so that I'll have no friends and no future," what I'm getting at is -- this may be indicative of a much deeper-rooted problem she's having, you may want to figure out what's causing her to go down this path]
 
It was really more of a rant about how much i hate pot. i'm not ending our friendship over it i'm wondering why she would choose it over a friendship (not just my own at that). I just hate pot.

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It's the puppets that pull the strings.

*You're very kind. Most people laugh when they see my googly eye.*

+fabulous+

The Edge, it's a direct object.
 
well fair enough, I don't endorse the use of pot either, but I don't necessarily think it's the root of all evil either, just out of curiosity, do you hate alcohol as much as you hate pot?
 
I want to say that it depends a lot on the person who smokes it. A rather obvious statement that may be, but let me continue; I have a few "friends" to tell you about. I know two in particular that started out with pot in probably 7th or 8th grade. This led to cigarettes which of course they still do now years later. Then came alcohol along with the pot and ciggs. None of this was enough of "buzz" for these 17 year olds with a built up 3 year tolerance, so then came cocaine. After this became boring, then came the crack and the needle. Fifteen years later they finally decided they have lost their way and need help. They have no money because everything they earn at their "jobs" is spent on addiction. They usually end up stealing and pawning from family and friends when friday's little paycheck is gone by sunday morning.

On the other hand; I know several people who used the same drugs mentioned above in probably the same order, and kept it to a "recreational use" minimum. These people grew out of their "drug phase", married, and are raising families now and teaching their kids to "just say no". This second group of people represent an alarming rate of our peers at many levels. Alarming when you think of the junk they stuffed into their bodies and the chaos their system endured for 24-72 hour intervals.

So what makes the first group different from the second group? Heredity? The "alcoholic gene"? Do I personally think pot is bad? Boy let me tell you-why hell, I don't know. I'm addicted to pepsi and Chinese take out. Some people are addicted to a deadly trio of nicotine, coffee, and the morning newspaper.

The real question is; if you understand the odds that are stacked up against you, would you still take that hit?

Best of luck with you and your friend
smile.gif
 
never tried. never will. it's bad bad bad. :p

actually I don't have a problem with pot as long as it's from a reliable source and you don't get addicted to it, ie, needing it everyday, but nevertheless, it is illegal and thus one must be cautious not to get their nuts caught in the old grinder
 
pot is an easy target in our society.

don't hate your friend because she smokes up. how is it that she picks pot 'over' you?


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i am ready to communicate with you
 
Of course, Spiral. It's comparable to alcohol, which kids have no business drinking either. Of course, alcohol is more dangerous, but pot really isn't for children. But you knew that already, didn't you?
 
I really find it troubling when I hear people using substances for the expressed intent of stress relief, and I don't care what the substance is.

What I'm very tired of is this very propagandistic line of alcohol being more dangerous than marijuana. And I thought I had heard every piece of revisionism imaginable?

Let's get this straight: anything and everything is dangerous in excess. A couple years ago, a runner died of water poisoning. He, apparently, drank too much water before his race. How's that for interesting? The key, of course, is moderation. Alcohol, in moderate amounts, has proven to have health benefits, particularly in cardiovascular health. Alcohol, in excess, kills...there has been no question about that.

However, there are some substances that have no place in us. Think what you want about tobacco, but it is highly unhealthy even in small amounts. There is no "moderate" health benefit, like with alcohol. Marijuana is the same way. That "buzz" you get from marijuana fucks with sensory channels in your brain. This isn't limited to just marijuana, but many drugs. Prozac does the same thing...people who used to get their "buzz" from 8 mg back in the late 1980s are now up to 80 mg just to get the same feeling of "normal." Ecstasy just does it in more extreme measures, and the evidence with usage is clear: premature brain aging and, in some cases, emotional problems due to the sensory channels being stuck too far open.

Marijuana reminds me a lot of tobacco in that respect. Tobacco seems harmless for the first two or three decades of consistent use, but then that cancer starts in. Marijuana, however, has been found to contain the same amount of tar as an entire pack of cigarettes, and preliminary evidence shows it may cause lung cancer.

Somehow, I find all this troubling. Quite honestly, I've found that doctors know very little about the brain and how it reacts when inundated with chemicals. Sure, the evidence may be currently inconclusive in that it appears that marijuana may be safe. I'm even open to allowing terminally ill patients use it for pain relief, considering that they'll die anyway.

Well, I've argued this before, but everyone seems to have their mind set anyway. I'm certainly not expecting people to change their mind just over this. However, I have a feeling that quoting marijuana.com would be similar to quoting Philip-Morris on cigarette safety in the early 1990s ("Smoking doesn't cause cancer"). It is amazing how easily statistics and studies can be manipulated.

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time

[This message has been edited by melon (edited 02-11-2002).]
 
Originally posted by melon:
I really find it troubling when I hear people using substances for the expressed intent of stress relief, and I don't care what the substance is.

i agree with you 100% on this, melon.

if you have to light one up to reduce stress, then maybe you should look into stress management. it's an illegal substance, and it'd sure suck if you got thrown in jail for it and possibly fucked away the rest of your life because of a drug charge.

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if there's secrets she has to be pardoned to every one of them, if there's heaven she gets to the heart...
ME!
 
well-said, melon.
z-edge and klodo, thanks for your responses. I was hoping to get maybe a couple of the people who don't see much wrong with pot to answer. My guess is most people, even those who are pro-pot here, would have a problem with someone giving a joint to a nine year old. Why? Probably because we see using pot as something with risks associated with it. Maybe those risks are no more than with alcohol or cigarettes (maybe less?), but there are risks. As the HORROR points out, if the risks outweigh the benefits, why do it? There are a lot of risks: arrest, unknown effects on brain function, increased potential for lung cancer. I won't get into the possibility of this leading to other drug use. Then there's the benefits. Well, it feels cool...for a while. All this to say that Lilly seems to have good reason to question her friend's pot-smoking. It seems that she's taking significant risks and getting little or no benefit. So Lilly points this out to her. So then she says she's stopped, but really hasn't. Now she's lying to her best friend. I'm not saying we should all quit doing anything our friends say we should do. But I think it's clear that Lilly had a legitimate concern with what her friend was doing. So why did her friend decide to continuing smoking pot, rather than quitting, or at least being honest with her? What about pot would cause someone to make that decision? I think that's a great question, Lilly. Could erper, Sicy, paxetora, or someone else who's used marijuana offer any ideas? The question is (see subject line) "is it really that great?"
 
I've used pot before - I still do in exteme moderation. Some people wind down with a drink on the weekends, some people smoke a joint. It's a matter of picking your poison. We can argue about the benefits of moderate alcohol consumption and say it's better than pot because it has cardio vascular benefits, but how many people do you know actually drink a couple of Budweisers while watching a game because it's "good for your health?"

We all know there is a social stigma attached to any kind of drug - but the drug we're talking about is marijuana. As a society we've been fed Reefer Madness and have the words "just say no" echoing in our heads all our lives. As far as pot goes, one of the reasons why it is illegal in the US is because of a gentleman names Ainslinger who had headed up Prohibition. When Prohibition was lifted, he needed to find a new scapegoat to keep himself employed. He chose marijuana. Marijuana was smoked in Mexico - it was a part of their culture, it was what the Mexican people used to wind their days down with. Much like people here wind their weekend day down with a drink, pot was used in the same manner of relaxation. Back in the early part of the 1900's, there was a large flux of Mexican immigrants coming into the states. The jobs they took were field working jobs, and after days of toiling hard under the sun, they'd wind down with some music and a joint. These customs 'scared' the white folks and people unfamiliar with Mexican customs. In a time when racism was prominent, it was no wonder that cultures and customs that weren't "white American" were blasted as well. Thus marijuana became the new scapegoat after the first war on drugs failed. The War on Alcohol.

Now that that drivel is out of the way... Is pot worth a friendship? No, it's not. No drug is. Anyone with half a brain knows this. Because of the social stigmas attached to marijuana use, that is probably why Lilly's friend hid it from her and resorted to lying to her friend because she didn't want to let her down. I don't think her friend was doing this to be mean spirited, but I think her friend was doing this because she didn't want to be lectured about "how stupid" smoking pot is. Much like young adults don't want to be lectured by their friends about how stupid getting drunk is.

The thing is, Lilly needs to find out why her friend is lying to her. They need to sort it out. Lilly's friend knows where Lilly stands as far as smoking pot goes - but they both need to have a heart to heart with each other. And they both need to listen and try to see each side by standing in one another's shoes. It's the only way to sort out a mess in a friendship gone sour. There could be other factors besides weed that Lilly or us don't know about. And at the very least, to maintain a friendship, Lilly's friend should refrain from smoking pot around her or being high around her. If Lilly's friend can't do that out of courtesy, then I'm sorry to say that the friendship may be nothing more than sour grapes.
 
Well we all know we cant change eachothers minds. Just to let anyone know that isnt familar with the judicial system, they wont waste their time on you for having a joint. Period. Maybe if you had a ounce or pound but certainally not a joint or a gram.

So legalities aside. I see people talking about the morals of smoking pot. Morals? Give me a break they arnt forcing it upon you, holding you down and making you smoke it are they? This is a personal decsion. If your friend decides to smoke pot without telling you then so be it. I dont tell my friends everything i do. Its like sex. Do you kiss and tell? hopefully not. Its a personal issue. This is as well.

Pot has been and will be around for a long time. It is now becoming less and less stigmatic. The baby boomers smoked it and now gen-x is. As time goes on this 'drug' will become more common and more accepted.

Oh and this was kind of ironic to read becasue i just finished rolling a joint. Off to get high. By all.

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Running to Stand Still-"you gotta cry without weeping, talk without speaking, scream without raising your voice."

"we're not burning out we're burning up...we're the loudest folk band in the world!"-Bono
 
I think there is a positive and negative side to everything. Pot can make people happy and ruin their life at the same time. You know I would rather have someone on pot in their basement hurting themselves then driving drunk. It's their life. If they want it to be short that is their choice.

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Please,
Evil
Acts
Can
End
 
just because i haven't smoked it doesn't mean i can't have an opinion on it. pot can totally fuck up families. believe me, i know.

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if there's secrets she has to be pardoned to every one of them, if there's heaven she gets to the heart...
ME!
 
Originally posted by bonoman:
I see people talking about the morals of smoking pot. Morals? Give me a break they arnt forcing it upon you, holding you down and making you smoke it are they?

This I do agree with. Even though I am opposed to its usage, I don't see people who use it as "immoral." Stupid, maybe, but that is my personal opinion. Oh well...

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
 
There appear, at least, to be some speculative health benefits of marijuana. Smoking cigarettes, you may as well rip out your lungs and set them on fire.

And no, I would never give pot to a nine-year-old. Hell, I have mixed feelings about nine-year-olds with refined sugar and remote-control cars. But I find it positively ludicrous that my government wants to tell me not to use a substance which, in very controlled moderation (as in, specifically, once every few months for me; pot's expensive!), makes me feel good and has never done any wrong by me or my friends.

Is pot worth a relationship? No. Should you stop using it if it interferes with your daily functioning? Yes, just like you should quit smoking or drinking if that becomes the case. Can it be dangerous? I guess so, but it wouldn't seem any more dangerous than cigarettes, fried food, or driving over the speed limit.

I think all of the hand-wringing about pot is much ado about nothing. Pass the bowl, mon...

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If you cannot live together in here, you cannot live together out there, let me tell ya. --Bono

You've got to cry without weeping, talk without speaking, scream without raising your voice... --Bono
 
Originally posted by melon:
What I'm very tired of is this very propagandistic line of alcohol being more dangerous than marijuana. And I thought I had heard every piece of revisionism imaginable?
Call it propaganda or revisionism if you like, I'm just speaking from experience as someone having lived in countries where both have been semi-legal all my life. Alcohol causes more problems - and more deaths - than marijuana in both those countries, but if you can prove otherwise, be my guest. You don't need to have an opinion on everything, you know?

[This message has been edited by Klodomir (edited 02-11-2002).]
 
Originally posted by melon:
I don't see people who use it as "immoral." Stupid, maybe, but that is my personal opinion.
In fairness to Bubba, I have to object to that statement.
 
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