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Old 11-04-2004, 01:06 PM   #316
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You don't understand anything because you're getting me all wrong, and that's because of the glasses you look out of, which I have no problem with...your view.

Anyway, it's a fact that it hurts a person spiritually, just like any sin I commit hurts me. i don't see how that means I have a log in my own eye. I can still say it hurts one spiritually, just like fornication does, or adultery, you know? Or, hmm, swearing. I swear sometimes. I know it hurts me. I'm just stating a fact. No log...lol.
I don't understand anything? Wow, I'm glad we have you here to straighten everything out.

We all have logs...it's a Bible reference.
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Old 11-04-2004, 01:08 PM   #317
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Actually, yes, I do make that conscious choice, frankly, to be attracted to the opposite sex.

how would you know?

as for hurting my soul, coming out was the best thing i've ever done for myself and for my friends and family. i could finally live honestly, and conduct loving, adult relationships in an honest manner. and i've been with the opposite sex. i tried very hard, but there is always a level of dishonesty that cannot be overcome. i am an immensely happier person now, and my friends see this change in me and are happy for me.
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Old 11-04-2004, 01:08 PM   #318
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Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
back to a previous issue, i'd like to put this "only rednecks" voted for bush thing to rest once and for all...



every one of those states has a high population... is by no means "redneck," are all on the coast or in the north (with the exception of florida), and all went for kerry (again, with the exception of florida)...

seems like an awful lot of red in them there states.

sure, the places with the highest population centers... new york city, LA, san francisco, miami, seattle... all shaded blue. but look just outside of those areas, in the suburbs... orange county, nassau and suffolk county, etc etc. etc. either white or red. long island has a population of near 3 million people... not exactly redneck boondock country. yet the population was split in half over who to vote for. a hell of a lot more people than just "ignorant redneck hicks" voted to re-elect bush.
Very interesting. (And I bet makes Bush smile).
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Old 11-04-2004, 01:08 PM   #319
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


I don't understand anything? Wow, I'm glad we have you here to straighten everything out.

We all have logs...it's a Bible reference.
I know it's a Bible reference.
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Old 11-04-2004, 01:09 PM   #320
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Actually, yes, I do make that conscious choice, frankly, to be attracted to the opposite sex.
You're the first person I've heard say this. Thank you for at least having the consistency to claim that heterosexuality is also a choice. So would you say you just one day made a conscious choice to be heterosexual and you've never thought about it since? Or is it a continuous, ongoing decision, so you have to constantly remind yourself to be attracted to the opposite sex and to find people of the same gender as you unattractive?
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Old 11-04-2004, 01:11 PM   #321
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how would you know?

as for hurting my soul, coming out was the best thing i've ever done for myself and for my friends and family. i could finally live honestly, and conduct loving, adult relationships in an honest manner. and i've been with the opposite sex. i tried very hard, but there is always a level of dishonesty that cannot be overcome. i am an immensely happier person now, and my friends see this change in me and are happy for me.
How would I know? It's not easy for me to be attracted to some men.

Good for you. Who knows what the future will bring, eh?
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Old 11-04-2004, 01:14 PM   #322
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


You're the first person I've heard say this. Thank you for at least having the consistency to claim that heterosexuality is also a choice. So would you say you just one day made a conscious choice to be heterosexual and you've never thought about it since? Or is it a continuous, ongoing decision, so you have to constantly remind yourself to be attracted to the opposite sex and to find people of the same gender as you unattractive?
It's a continuous, ongoing decision. I'm not attracted to women at all sexually. At least I've never found anyone. But, that doesn't mean you just automatically are attracted to the opposite sex, either, if you're heterosexual.

I don't think it's natural all around. I agree with Bono...I think we're all sort of like animals, going from one partner to another. I think monogamy is also a choice.
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Old 11-04-2004, 01:14 PM   #323
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How would I know? It's not easy for me to be attracted to some men.

Good for you. Who knows what the future will bring, eh?

if you're not attracted to some men, why bother? no one is attracted to all people, no matter their orientation. i have no idea what you mean.

as was said in Trainspotting, "it's all about aesthetics and fuck all to do with morality."

and thank you. i hope the future will bring me the tools to create stability in my relationships. that's all i'm asking for -- the tools to do the job.
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Old 11-04-2004, 01:16 PM   #324
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if you're not attracted to some men, why bother? no one is attracted to all people, no matter their orientation. i have no idea what you mean.

as was said in Trainspotting, "it's all about aesthetics and fuck all to do with morality."

and thank you. i hope the future will bring me the tools to create stability in my relationships. that's all i'm asking for -- the tools to do the job.
I think I'd be very happy just being by myself. That's what I mean. I don't need men anymore then I need women.

I seriously hope so. I think gay people are usually very kind, good people. We'll see what happens.
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Old 11-04-2004, 01:16 PM   #325
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Originally posted by U2Traveller


It's a continuous, ongoing decision. I'm not attracted to women at all sexually. At least I've never found anyone. But, that doesn't mean you just automatically are attracted to the opposite sex, either, if you're heterosexual.
But if you're not attracted to women (presumably then you're only attracted to men) then how is your heterosexuality a choice? You've admitted you don't choose not to be attracted to women, you're just not, so how are you making a choice?
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Old 11-04-2004, 01:20 PM   #326
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But if you're not attracted to women (presumably then you're only attracted to men) then how is your heterosexuality a choice? You've admitted you don't choose not to be attracted to women, you're just not, so how are you making a choice?
Okay, then I do make it a choice NOT to be attracted to women. I do choose that, just like I choose to be attracted to some men. But some men I'm not attracted to at all. I can't even choose to, lol.

It's a choice. I believe heterosexuality is also a choice.

Someone like Bono I'm attracted to. Someone like the boring banker guy next door with mushy muscles and not much world-view, I am not.
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Old 11-04-2004, 01:23 PM   #327
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I think gay people are usually very kind, good people. We'll see what happens.

thank you for your kind words. i was raised catholic, so i fully understand the premise of "hate the sin, love the sinner." but the mistake here, i think, is that if the "sin" is homosexuality, it is definitionally more than simply sex. sex is an expression of physical attraction and affection, often an expression of love, and a single component in a complex human relationship. i think people get hung up on the specific sex act -- and i fully understand why straight people find gay sex unappealing ... it's far, far more legitimate to say that homosexuality is gross (an opinion) than to say it is wrong (a judgement -- and fail to see the multidimensionality of the identity.

would it be a sin if i lived with and loved and shared my life with a member of the same sex, but we refrained from sex?
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Old 11-04-2004, 01:23 PM   #328
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Okay, then I do make it a choice NOT to be attracted to women. I do choose that, just like I choose to be attracted to some men. But some men I'm not attracted to at all. I can't even choose to, lol.

It's a choice. I believe heterosexuality is also a choice.

Someone like Bono I'm attracted to. Someone like the boring banker guy next door with mushy muscles and not much world-view, I am not.
So you're just changing your position to make your argument more convincing? Two minutes ago you said you're just not attracted to women, implying that you don't have to make a conscious choice not to be attracted to them. Now you're claiming it is a conscious choice?

In any case, do you really choose to be attracted to particular men? Do you consciously say "I will be attracted to Bono, but not to the man next door"? Or do you just see a picture of Bono and are naturally attracted to him, but don't feel the same way about your neighbour?
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Old 11-04-2004, 01:24 PM   #329
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Welcome back Fizz!!!
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Old 11-04-2004, 01:24 PM   #330
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Hey nbc! Nice to see you again.
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