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Old 11-03-2004, 07:29 PM   #166
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Originally posted by StlElevation


so because somebody supported bush, they need your luck at purgatory? please. get over yourself.

if youre so pro life and anti war, then how can you support abortions? by supporting kerry, you support abortion which is the murdering of innocent children whove done nothing wrong.

but, since youre so much better than all of us bush supporters, enjoy your first class trip to heaven.
That´s nice, but very uninformed criticism, my dear

1) Generally, I´m against abortion (with some exceptions).

2) I haven´t supported Kerry, I´m not an American citizen, I didn´t vote.

3) I´m a Roman Catholic. Since you don´t seem to know much about purgatory, I may take the chance to explain some principles here:

The Roman Catholic Church does not teach its people to have confidence in the full forgiveness of their sins through the death of Christ alone. Nor are they taught that the righteousness of God accomplished by Jesus Christ is their permanent possession. The result is that the faithful Catholic is taught never to come to full assurance of salvation during their earthly life, for they are still capable of committing "mortal sin." A Catholic's redemption is always dependent on their maintaining a faithfulness to the Church's doctrine and practice.

Thus Catholics are taught that when they die, if they have not committed mortal sins (and with the exception of the special class of believers they call "saints"), all go to the place the church calls purgatory. The Catechism states "All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven..."

"The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent" (Catechism 1030-1031). This concept of purgatory led to the unbiblical Catholic doctrine of prayers for the dead (Catechism 1032). Catholic believers are taught that "it is a holy and a wholesome thought to pray for the dead that they may be loosed from their sins" (Catechism 958).
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Old 11-03-2004, 07:31 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally posted by StlElevation


so because somebody supported bush, they need your luck at purgatory? please. get over yourself.

if youre so pro life and anti war, then how can you support abortions? by supporting kerry, you support abortion which is the murdering of innocent children whove done nothing wrong.

but, since youre so much better than all of us bush supporters, enjoy your first class trip to heaven.
So by supporting Bush u don't support the murder of innocent Iraqis who have done nothing wrong?? Grow up and come into the world of reality please.
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Old 11-03-2004, 07:34 PM   #168
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im a catholic and ive gone to catholic school from k-11, been confirmed all that good stuff, i think i know what purgatory is thank you very much. it's clear you don't support bush and oppose those who are happy that bush won, so obviously your support went to kerry, regardless if youre american or not. i see other non americans getting bent out of shape as well.

the death of innocent iraqis who have done nothing wrong? i guess if you mean by death of terrorists, sure, youre damn right i support killing off the terrorists. iraq harbored terrorists, had terrorist camps setup and had a fuseleage of a plane where terrorists practicied hijacking planes. innocent enough, i guess.
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Old 11-03-2004, 07:39 PM   #169
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Innocent people die in war, they get their legs blown off, they get their brains splattered across back walls - it is not pretty nor is it a good thing.

Innocent people also die in the peace, they are starved to death, die from diseases that would be treatable if the resources were getting to the hospitals, they are tortured to death and cut to pieces by the mukabarat.

There is always a cost, through action or inaction - nobody should forget that.
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Old 11-03-2004, 07:50 PM   #170
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Quote:
Originally posted by StlElevation
im a catholic and ive gone to catholic school from k-11, been confirmed all that good stuff, i think i know what purgatory is thank you very much. it's clear you don't support bush and oppose those who are happy that bush won, so obviously your support went to kerry, regardless if youre american or not. i see other non americans getting bent out of shape as well.

the death of innocent iraqis who have done nothing wrong? i guess if you mean by death of terrorists, sure, youre damn right i support killing off the terrorists. iraq harbored terrorists, had terrorist camps setup and had a fuseleage of a plane where terrorists practicied hijacking planes. innocent enough, i guess.
Guys like StlEvation, Headache in a Suitcase and that funny australian (Wanderer something) are just your typical redneck. It's a waste of time trying to come up with facts (they will deny those are facts) and good sense. They are warmongers, they still believe church must be united to the governments (yeah, i know, long gone the human race evolved to know it's not right to mix religion/governments), they still do NOT believe when they see/read about the killing of innocents by the USA (yeah, they think the media is a bunch of communists who are trying to wash their brains with false images), they don't care about the rest of the world (actually, they know nothing about the ROW) and they really believe America is the country chosen by God to "guide" all ppl to the "light" and they believe monkey Bush is the chosen one to lead the masses to the promised paradise.

Talking to them and trying to put some sense into their minds is pretty much useless. It's like talking to a wall.

And they think they are pretty smart and clever by posting pics of that monkey Bush or dropping some bad taste one liners...

Poor ppl...
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Old 11-03-2004, 07:53 PM   #171
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2_Guy


Guys like StlEvation, Headache in a Suitcase and that funny australian (Wanderer something) are just your typical redneck. It's a waste of time trying to come up with facts (they will deny those are facts) and good sense. They are warmongers, they still believe church must be united to the governments (yeah, i know, long gone the human race evolved to know it's not right to mix religion/governments), they still do NOT believe when they see/read about the killing of innocents by the USA (yeah, they think the media is a bunch of communists who are trying to wash their brains with false images), they don't care about the rest of the world (actually, they know nothing about the ROW) and they really believe America is the country chosen by God to "guide" all ppl to the "light" and they believe monkey Bush is the chosen one to lead the masses to the promised paradise.

Talking to them and trying to put some sense into their minds is pretty much useless. It's like talking to a wall.

And they think they are pretty smart and clever by posting pics of that monkey Bush or dropping some bad taste one liners...

Poor ppl...
I don't have anything to say here. I just thought this entire post should be put in boldface so that all can marvel at this guy's spectacular insight.
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Old 11-03-2004, 08:01 PM   #172
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Yep look at me, I am a dumb as shit redneck warmonger who believes that God is the divine truth and all those Muslims should be converted to the real truth.

Fact is I am a university student living in the City of Melbourne studying for a science degree, I want to become a paleontologist. I am an atheist however I will respect peoples right to worship as long as it doesn't injur anybody. I have no love for war, but I get very sick looking at how fucked up some situations are that could be remedied with millitary intervention, force is not always the right answer - but it should be considered. Individual liberty must be the foundation of societies, tollerating despotism and injustice in the world; standing by when people are dying is fucked up, if the opportunity to intervene presents itself and the benefits outweigh the costs then such a course of action must be considered.

I learnt to speak Greek in High School and went over there one summer, right now I am beginning to learn Farsi - all of this is because I am a dumbfuck redneck who doesn't want to know shit about the world.

Bush is not the greatest president ever, but today he is one of the few world leaders who reciognizes the threat from radical Islam and takes action to eliminate it in the long term, again cues on one of the MANY threads about the Iraq war.

You drop in here now, and choose to lecture Headache and I about how dumb we each are, rather amusing considering your contributions to FYM over the past year have been minor. We have each maintained solid discussion on the issues before and will do so again, I can talk the talk but the election is just finished and frankly I want to kick back and celebrate.

The pretentious "Bush supporters are typical rednecks" attitude only makes you look petty. Now this libertarian right wing death beast shall move on (.org).

P.S. I am fiercely pro-Israeli and yet I come from a non-relgious family, no nutjob second coming evangelical supporter here, just one who believes that Israel - a pluralist liberal democratic state - should be preserved in the face of terrorism by the PLO Arabs and their paymasters.
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Old 11-03-2004, 08:01 PM   #173
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Quote:
Originally posted by StlElevation
it's clear you don't support bush and oppose those who are happy that bush won
If you knew details about purgatory, you wouldn´t have attacked me, because you would´ve known we´re probably all gonna have a big grill there, thank you very much, thank you very much.

Not supporting Bush doesn´t make me a supporter of Kerry at all. I haven´t been brainwashed by with-or-against-us propaganda. Sure, imo Kerry would have been a better choice than Bush, but I didn´t support him actively. After all, he is just a politician, and far from idealizing, I think he wouldn´t have brought peace, love, spirit and good fortune to all the world at once.

I know where I stand, so it is useless to try to force a political direction on me. Long-time conservative members of this board will assure you that I have my own political agenda.

As to your terrorist argument, that´s ridiculous and I am not going to waste any time explaining you what the difference between "collateral damage" and terrorists is.

At the moment, I will not post another picture.

I just hope that your soul will be learning sometime.

However, once touched by the negative powers, I know it is very difficult to change sides.

Windy city New Yorkers might call me dreamer and idealist, tree-hugger, hippie and utopist (of which I am none) but you know, that doesn´t matter at all

I am very realistic about fighting evil.
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Old 11-03-2004, 08:04 PM   #174
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this guys spectacular insight?

the same guy who said the united states is going to fall because bush got re elected?

the same guy who said this is the beginning of the end of our civilization?

his post reassures me if nothing else that i am indeed on the right train of thought if nothing else. if all you can do is insult me, fine, go right ahead. ill sit right here and shake my head right back at you pal.

but i'm just a typical redneck, right. i'm not even from the south. i live in connecticut, probably the second most liberal state in the country. believe it or not, there are sensible republicans in the northeast


im still not seeing how the innocent are getting killed. was it ok when sadaam killed his own people? then we go and liberate them from that, and we're the bad guys? get a grip.

you want to talk to a wall? talk to a mirror.
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Old 11-03-2004, 08:04 PM   #175
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Oceane and Irvine, after reading all of your posts, I tend to agree with you most. I do have a strong belief (even though I have no pretention of holding the truth) that Presiden Bush's re-election ws due to the newly registered new-born christians in key states like Ohio and Florida. The Republicans simply came in bigger numbers than the democrats. Hats of to them for that. I just hope this does not turn into a war between two religious fanatics groups. I really hate terrorists. I don't like hypocrits any better, though. I am completely in disbelief myself that anyone in their right mind would vote for Bush. But hey, that's just me, everyone is entitled to his opinion.


As for the three other guys (I bet you'll figure out who I'm talking about), I am deeply sorry if I offend you , but I sincerely find your views shocking, insulting and disrespectful. Is it possible for you in any way, shape or form that the whole world does not have to agree with you ? You are not alone in this world, you know.

I see you running your mouth about Iraq and how they needed to be taken out because everybody who hates the US or disagrees with them is a threat. Did I get that right ? Damn. I guess you'll have to bomb the whole world to feel safe, then. Facts : no weapons of mass destruction. No diplomacy. Just bombs away, and screw the civilians. What ? Oh, there's oil in Iraq ? What a coincidence. How convenient. And meanwhile, Bin Laden is still at large and moving one with the terrorist menace.

I don't pretend to know the absolute truth but take a lok at it, guys. 20, 50, 100 countries to one tend to agree. And don't give me that BS about the UK backing you up. The british disagree with their Prime Minister. And the jewish vote went strongly democrat.

I guess itù,s asking too much for you to open your eyes. Maybe you don't know any better. And did anybody tell you that you must show class in victory as well ? Congratulations, you won. Good for you. Enough with your pathetic dances and yhe waving.

But with such an attitude, my 3 friends, I do feel you're turning your back on the world. But I'm not mad at you. You are U2 fans, as I am, and we have some things in common.

But one day, you WILL get what's coming to you. As will America.
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Old 11-03-2004, 08:05 PM   #176
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Stl, I was being sarcastic about U2_Guy's "spectacular insight". I apologize if that wasn't clear.
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Old 11-03-2004, 08:06 PM   #177
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Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars


If you knew details about purgatory, you wouldn´t have attacked me, because you would´ve known we´re probably all gonna have a big grill there, thank you very much, thank you very much.

Not supporting Bush doesn´t make me a supporter of Kerry at all. I haven´t been brainwashed by with-or-against-us propaganda. Sure, imo Kerry would have been a better choice than Bush, but I didn´t support him actively. After all, he is just a politician, and far from idealizing, I think he wouldn´t have brought peace, love, spirit and good fortune to all the world at once.

I know where I stand, so it is useless to try to force a political direction on me. Long-time conservative members of this board will assure you that I have my own political agenda.

As to your terrorist argument, that´s ridiculous and I am not going to waste any time explaining you what the difference between "collateral damage" and terrorists is.

At the moment, I will not post another picture.

I just hope that your soul will be learning sometime.

However, once touched by the negative powers, I know it is very difficult to change sides.

Windy city New Yorkers might call me dreamer and idealist, tree-hugger, hippie and utopist (of which I am none) but you know, that doesn´t matter at all

I am very realistic about fighting evil.
ok, well i had figured you were a kerry supporter so i apologize for labeling you that.

still, i know what purgatory is and i know what its all about. everybodys going to be going there for however long we are there for. however you insinuated that supporting bush meant we'd have a bigger plate on our hands once we got there. but, if you want to try and spin it any other way, that's fine, but it's clear that was the objective of your post to say that people who supported bush were going to have more time in purgatory than others.
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Old 11-03-2004, 08:10 PM   #178
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Quote:
Originally posted by StlElevation


im still not seeing how the innocent are getting killed. was it ok when sadaam killed his own people? then we go and liberate them from that, and we're the bad guys? get a grip.

you want to talk to a wall? talk to a mirror.
What more TV.

And...go liberate the iraq ppl from Sadaam? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Do you still believe in Santa Claus?

Can you read PETROL?
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Old 11-03-2004, 08:11 PM   #179
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Originally posted by speedracer
Stl, I was being sarcastic about U2_Guy's "spectacular insight". I apologize if that wasn't clear.
my fault then. tough to tell whats sarcastic today, especially on the 'net
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Old 11-03-2004, 08:13 PM   #180
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Innocent people die in war, they get their legs blown off, they get their brains splattered across back walls - it is not pretty nor is it a good thing.

Innocent people also die in the peace, they are starved to death, die from diseases that would be treatable if the resources were getting to the hospitals, they are tortured to death and cut to pieces by the mukabarat.

There is always a cost, through action or inaction - nobody should forget that.
True. That´s why I don´t agree with the Churchill you´ve been quoting there. Even the cost of a single injured person is far too high to advocate "taking action" with arms.

If you beg to differ, I encourage you to learn by having closer contact to the ones you are speaking of. I´ve been around, so I have (not only) seen my share.

"It´s not pretty nor is it a good thing" is not enough, because you base your judgement solely on your intellect. Not your heart, and not your soul.
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